Digital Start Clocks

[Dave M]

Con

I am with Paul F. I dislike digital clocks. For me, they are much harder to pick out regardless of what lights are used. To much old school I guess. I never count seconds, I relate my position on the course to the position of the hand on the clock. When I do run at a race with digital clocks, I have a hard time adjusting.

For Pro I think digital would be fine. Most use a timer of some sort in the boat as with the USTS they always run a true 3 minute gun. Easy to push your timer button when the 3 minute warning is given. This way you are not milling in one particular spot on the course so you can see the clock. Works very well in my opinion. At most every mod & stock race they rush the 3 minute gun if all boats are out there. Makes it impossible to use a timer in the boat. THis is not true of Nationals and some Divisionals as I think the rule book state a three minute gun must be used.

Now onto colors. IOA has a orange faced closk with black outline and black sweeping hand. This is the easiest clock (in my opinion) to find and read. MHRA I think has a yellow face. It is a little more diffuclt to see. And I think ODA has a white faced clock, very hard to pick out. White should be abdoned as there are so many white EZ-Ups and white trailers it is to easy to lose the clock with the clutter. Not too many Halloween orange trailes and canopies out there....

So if your hearts are set on digital, can I suggest a large orange face back ground ? Perhaps a couple sheets of plywood painted this orange color to place behind the clock ? You could also make it strong enough to bolt the digital clock onto. I am sure this would be af great benefit. As many times as I hear the excuse when one jumps the gun, "could not find the clock" I can't be alone on this.

[Bill Huson]

Dave M has a point . . .

An analog brain driving a boat in analog motion relates to a sweep hand clock in analog motion. E-Z. Starting on a digital clock requires adjustment, as in brain/boat motion retraining.

I adjusted to a digital rather quickly because I have NO DEPTH PERCEPTION so had no idea how many analog feet/yards/metres I was away from the start line with the analog sweep hand clock. Much easier for me to think in seconds from the 500' to the start line = tick-tick-tick. . . Actaually I just picked out a boat known to start on the mark and followed them

[Bill Huson]

true . . .

Chris,

when the race starts, or "zero" can really be any time. what ultimately matters is when the little light goes on telling the video operator when the start of the race is. if I had a digital clock I would set the light to go on right when the clock reads zero. that is most intuitive for me and as long as it is always that way and everyone understands it, it would work.

Bill

The Region 4 digital clock has a signal trigger output for a still camera and/or led for the video camera. I'm not sure what Chris is saying about "0" being "0.9" seconds `cause the signal trigger fires at "0" not 0.9 seconds later. Course the actual picture or video lamp may drag. Cameras are not instant, and I'm sure even an LED has micro-second lag from dark to lit.

[Kristi Ellison]

Paul
If the USTS goes digital I will put in a good word with Chris and maybe he'll give you some digital starting tips

[ian]

LeMans starts....

[Cameraboy]

LeMans starts....

I've been told that LeMans starts eliminate the element of driver's skill

At Stock Nationals, when we switched to the sweep hand clock (prior to any racing occuring), there were a number of racers from outside our region who were quite happy with the change. Racers in our region have hated the CORA sweep hand clock for years, many preferring the SOA digital clock. In fact, a couple of years ago in a similar thread, I was told we should listen to our customers and go digital. So we did.

Nationals was the first race in at least five years that there was no open *****ing about that sweep hand clock. We had to use it the rest of the season in the region - no more complaints (except it really is tough to see on a mile 1/4 or 1 2/3 course).

I dunno - I don't drive (whoa - there goes my credibility ). But a sweep hand clock is probably a heck of a lot cheaper than a good digital.

[Andrew 4CE]

I met with the model boat clock designer last night... he's already started to convert his existing digital clock design to LEDs. He says it's very easy to adapt what he's been making for 10 years for the model boat guys to something with larger digits for inboard/outboard use. He sells a complete digital clock setup for models for $1200 that runs off of batteries or 120v power. You can add yourself or pay extra and have him supply options like horns, speed trap timing, remote operation, automated voice call of heat times and speed, etc... He has 27 of them out there in use already, all but one (ruined in Katrina) are still in use.

I likely wont post a lot about it on here until things move along, but if you want to be in the loop or have leads on selecting proven LEDs that work in sunlight, please email me at riverrat04@hotmail.com. I'm sure we'll come up with something.

Also to give us an idea... say we could get a completed count down system with 36" digits that can start at any number (ie 3 minutes, 5 minutes, whatever), will a trigger sender for a camera and/or led light for video and operate stand alone and/or from a computer and run on batteries and 120v for $1500 who woud seriously be interested? Volume of units helps makes the price cheaper obviously.

Also please email me your wish list for clock features so we can brainstorm.

[Andrew 4CE]

it was mentioned APBA specs the size of a digital the clock... if someone could post or email me this info it would be appreciated.

[bill giles]

In Europe, they are doing away with clocks! No gun-jumpers, no milling collisions, first boat is first. It has its drawbacks for us right now but with "re-traing" drivers, it could work! Sure be easier for all on the judges stand and spectators. I am with Ian ~!
Bill Giles

[Jack Stotts]

Digital clock dimmensions are to be found in the 2007 Rulebook in the General Racing Rules on page xi, Rule 10, paragraph 1.B. It's toward the top of the page 3 lines down from the top. Good luck

[Kristi Ellison]

I have seen plenty wrecks with LeMans starts they drive over the top of each other...just ask Curt. How do they start record races?

[raceright]

In Europe, they are doing away with clocks! No gun-jumpers, no milling collisions, first boat is first. It has its drawbacks for us right now but with "re-traing" drivers, it could work! Sure be easier for all on the judges stand and spectators. I am with Ian ~!
Bill Giles

Asked all but a few capsule drivers about Lemans starts as it is probably safer. Most did not seem to care one way or another but Robbie does not
want Lemans starts so I have droped the Issue for now(money talks and bul----walks) But kristi I'll bet he will help with purchase if you ask him..He is not a fan of communicating this way give him a call.

Pat

[Kristi Ellison]

Pat

Some of the capsule drivers feel that dropping those big boats in the water for a LeMans start increases the incidence of twisted cranks. It also takes a bigger crew to do LeMans starts and more beach volunteers, which we are soo overwhelemd with already...not!

[Andrew 4CE]

Thanks Jack,

Digital Clock Rule... outdated a bit due to LEDs...

CLOCK, digital type: This starting clock is to be electrically operated and be capable of driving a minimum of two digit displays not to be less
than 21 in. X 36 in. actual digit size each. These digits should be in a black or dark face display case of not less than 32 in. X 48 in. X 11 in.
each. Each digit shall be made using light bulbs of not less than 75 watt or of an equal brightness. This clock shall also indicate by seconds,
the elapsed time of the last minute before the start.

but my question is... who cares how deep the clock is??? 11" thick? Take those three digits apart and you have something roughly 3' x 3' x 4'!!

The relavent part I guess is... 21" wide x 36" tall digits minimum.

[scorer]

Le Mans Start

From this spectators point of view, Le Mans Starts are boring, I would much rather watch a flying start against a clock.
From a judging standpoint, they are still boring. Yea with the flying start, we have gun jumpers, it happens, some guys do it intentionally for smooth water, some need to work on their skill level. Right now our camera system probably saves a driver most of the time. What we see as over, the camera says no, its ok. As we move towards more accuracy in clock timing and pictures, we will see the camera agreeing with our eyes more. There will still be boats hiding in the spray that can't be read, there will still be heats that have to be re run because the judges can't get all the numbers, that is why the rulebook tells us what to do in that situation. But with all its faults, I still prefer the flying start.