SO/MO/PRO Nationals @ DePue

[meanred]

2007 MOD Nationals

Oh yeh, our mod catagory is really strong too. How many eliminations were at the mod nationals this year? I think I heard that DMH was it.

Tim

2007 MOD Nationals had eliminations in AMR BMH CMH DMH FEH DMR & FAR. It was the largest outboard race held this summer.

Jim
7-M

[hydroracer25]

entries

Mod Nat'ls entries were about 130 in 2007. With the SO and Js they were near 200 total.

Stock/J Nat'ls were about 210 (59 for J and 151 for SO) in 2007.

I'm not sure what the Pro's had this year.

It could be done, but it would make for an awful long time for those that would attempt to run all 3 categories and even though it would help many from the logistics standpoint, DePue isn't the hotbed for entertaiment or even close hotels. Not sure how many would want to stay that long.

Mark

[Tim Weber]

Jim,

I stand corrected.

Tim

[Kristi Ellison]

PRO Nationals 222 entries

[Brian10s]

Mod Nat'ls entries were about 130 in 2007. With the SO and Js they were near 200 total.

Stock/J Nat'ls were about 210 (59 for J and 151 for SO) in 2007.

I'm not sure what the Pro's had this year.

It could be done, but it would make for an awful long time for those that would attempt to run all 3 categories and even though it would help many from the logistics standpoint, DePue isn't the hotbed for entertaiment or even close hotels. Not sure how many would want to stay that long.

Mark

Mark,
Zanesville had 252 entries - I think around 80+ SO & J's but will have to check that number. I have the summaries at home and can double check tonight if I remember.

To get a true accurate number, we would probably need to get the total numbers from the last 3 to 4 Nationals and do an average. Because the Nats have bounced around the country the last 4 years (04 Whitney Point NY, 05 Franklin PA & Dayton OH, 06 Wakefield MI & 07 Zanesville OH & Moses Lake WA) it would be hard to get a accurate projection on how many of each category would attend in Depue.

As for another spot to hold a "Super" Nats, I think the reasoning for Depue is that the Pros have such a long standing relationship with Depue, where the rest of us migrate around the county every year. Unless the Pro's would want to take a year off from Depue, sometime in the future. This would open the floor to any other sites that might be interested. But probably for this discussion, not messing with the Pro's nice set up would be more productive. I am sure we all would love to have a deal in place that would take us to the same spot every year for 10 plus years.

Kristi brought up a great point. With a advanced schedule and a drivers meeting every morning, it might be possible to line up classes throughout the week, even mix the classes and categories. Start on either end of the speed chart and work your way to the end. The only people who would be forced to stay the whole time would be those that have an A class and a FE or 1100 on the same team.

After reading Kristi's post:
That would make a total of 684 entires if all 3 had been combined in '07.

[Kristi Ellison]

Brian

The one big problem with mixing the catagories is the rules. Too confusing for the judges stand. I would say keep the catagories seprate but maybe try to look at where OSY and KPH fall in relation to CSH and JSH, AXH. The Men's Club would be fine with us not showing up for a year and the drivers would be okay with it if they had enough lead time. Remember we have to consider motor home space, trailer space and hotels. There were not enough rooms during the reunion PRO Nationals this year imagine with over 600 entries...It could be a 10 day event and a lot of fun but we need a central venue with good sponsor money and massive planning and coordination and most of all promotion.
Connie...any good lakes in IA???

[hydroracer25]

Brian,

You may be correct, I went to IOAs site [URL="http://www.indianaoutboard.org/ModNats07-Results.pdf"] and only added up the Mod numbers based on elims/finals. There may have been some entries that didn't score points. Regardless, I agree that to get accurate numbers you'd have to looks at the past years and focus on the combined Nationals to get a good feel for what you "gain" by combining.

Mark

[Brian10s]

Kristi,
I agree that there some differences in certain rules between the categories. If you set up the schedule so that the Pros would run in a single set per day, sorounded by sets of SO, MO & J's, then at turnboat change, also change out the stand with a whole new group. This would also have the Pros only running a short section each day (much like how I think you usually run) and not having to sit in the pits all day (unless you wanted to).

With each group bringing their own "A" team to the party and officiating their own group, that part should run as normal.

Mark,
You are correct. We both know some Stocks, Mods & J's stayed home in 07. That and when they are combined, guys usually put an extra rig on the water that they might not if the Nats were seperate. Then again, some guys can't or don't want to take off the time for a whole week Nats. Probably the best way is to average the last couple of years.

But based on 07 totals, everyone should look at a 700 boat site in order to be safe. I have not been to Depue, could you put 700 boats there? If not, where else could you have 700 boats?

[raceright]

A few numbers

lets see
stock mod and pro membership is down approximately 50% in last ten years
in the early 60's at a NOA Natl's in Atlants Georgia there was over 500 entries,this was before the mod division..Most engines were highly modified merc's running on alchol. Market switched in the outboard world and we in the pro's wound up with hosts of foreign engine suppliers and stock outboard pretty much started a slow death..Then here comes Yamato and Stock outboard recieved a rebirth if you will... Yea I have different views on the leadership of the stock outboard catergory as I believe they stand in the way of Our type of racing's growth. Was at national meeting with Harry Pinner in the 80's when he said look at these fools shooting them selfs in the foot again. But why do I care I run Pro. Stock engines I believe is the only place where new blood can be found but we do nothing I repeat nothing to foster growth..Last year APBA with total assets of over $1,000,000.00
spent nothing on Promotion and almost the same on Advertising no business looking to grow only tries to grow from within we need help people and hopefully a new BOD and Pres understands this. I have APBA's financial reports and as soon as I run some Question's past Bruce (treasurer)
I will post for all to see

Pat

[BratChild]

This sounds like a great idea. I'd definitely make sure the Eldredge Racing Team was there!


One thing to mention:
If you run the Stock/Mod/J Nationals the week before the Pro's, the USTS Constantine, MI race will have to be moved to another weekend [or something of the sort].

[Kristi Ellison]

I belive way back years ago there were over 500 entries for the Nationals maybe in DePue. One must remember that a lot of those arrived atop old station wagons and vans with much smaller trailers. We also could pit on the other side of the ramp in those days. There were very few motor homes or campers and more tents then those staying on hotels. Much closer to stumble to the tent then drive to Peru.
So in my opinion NO we could not hold 700 entries all at once in DePue. We are tight now with a little over 200. I would say 300 max and that is squeezing everyone in....lord help the poor bas...d who arrives late!

[HRTV]

lets see
stock mod and pro membership is down approximately 50% in last ten years
in the early 60's at a NOA Natl's in Atlants Georgia there was over 500 entries,this was before the mod division..Most engines were highly modified merc's running on alchol. Market switched in the outboard world and we in the pro's wound up with hosts of foreign engine suppliers and stock outboard pretty much started a slow death..Then here comes Yamato and Stock outboard recieved a rebirth if you will... Yea I have different views on the leadership of the stock outboard catergory as I believe they stand in the way of Our type of racing's growth. Was at national meeting with Harry Pinner in the 80's when he said look at these fools shooting them selfs in the foot again. But why do I care I run Pro. Stock engines I believe is the only place where new blood can be found but we do nothing I repeat nothing to foster growth..Last year APBA with total assets of over $1,000,000.00
spent nothing on Promotion and almost the same on Advertising no business looking to grow only tries to grow from within we need help people and hopefully a new BOD and Pres understands this. I have APBA's financial reports and as soon as I run some Question's past Bruce (treasurer)
I will post for all to see

Pat

Hey Pat,

Please post that APBA info as soon as possible, its funny that they made over a million dollars last year and did nothing to promote the sport and people praise the organization like a God in the mean time I cant get folks to donate $25 a year to the only medium they have to help promote the sport "HydroRacer.Net" sorry to piggy back off your post but this is truly amazing.

So far the 2008 membership drive for HR as taken in about $300

[14-H]

lets see
stock mod and pro membership is down approximately 50% in last ten years
***

Was at national meeting with Harry Pinner in the 80's when he said look at these fools shooting them selfs in the foot again. But why do I care I run Pro. Stock engines I believe is the only place where new blood can be found but we do nothing I repeat nothing to foster growth..***

I have APBA's financial reports and as soon as I run some Question's past Bruce (treasurer)
I will post for all to see

Pat

Pat: SO had a huge increase in membership and races in the mid to late 80's with the new Merc and OMC engines that became available.

APBA is a non-profit membership organization. As soon as I see your suggestion for an alternative, I'd be happy to comment on it.

Not true we spent nothing on promotion. The SO Category spent $5,000.00 two years ago to produce our promo video. I know Inboard spent a bunch on their website which is a pretty good one. Besides, I agree with the Don Allen theory: we get very little return on advertising money. We get most of our new members the old-fashioned way: by putting them in a boat for a ride. Please see the Quinn Doerle thread as an example.

Finally, the budget and balance sheet are available every year at the annual meeting and distributed there. Don't deceive anyone, though: our expenses always equal our income. Most of the assets are included in the national office in the real estate, building and office equipment. It's misleading to suggest that APBA has $1M sitting around in cash available for promotion since this is simply not the case.

Eddie.

[14-H]

Hey Pat,

*** its funny that they made over a million dollars last year ***

Pat: This is exactly what I am talking about. While you didn't exactly say this, your statements caused people to believe this.

For the record: APBA made NOTHING in profit last year; it cannot as a not-for-profit corporation.

Pat is referring to the value of assets owned by APBA most of which include the value of the land and building which make up the national office. That, of course, says nothing with regard to the liabilities the corporation has.

BTW: all of you need to support Hydroracer. Eddie.

[Dr. Thunder]

...Pat is referring to the value of assets owned by APBA most of which include the value of the land and building which make up the national office. That, of course, says nothing with regard to the liabilities the corporation has.

BTW: all of you need to support Hydroracer. Eddie.

Great post Ed ...If you don't know how to read a financial statement and confuse a balance sheet with a P & L statement you will most likely be headed down the path of misinformation! Believe that Raceright was referring to assets ... but, you still need to be careful so others don't mis-interpret!