New helmet cost

[Gordie Miller]

Good questions

yes, every helmet manufacturer has rejects and some make it to market. I am a Lifeline dealer(sell Bell helmets), I personally wear an Arai Signet, draw your own conclusions. Do I discourage price shopping? No, competition is what capitalism is based on. I encourage everyone to spend their money wisely, but a helmet is not a place to take chances. For the overall small investment that it is, "better safe than sorry" you may not get a second chance. As far as neck collars go, yes they are a good idea, the HANS device is obviously the ultimate but totally impractical in a kneel down application. I hope this answers all your questions.

[Bill Huson]

I've been riding motorcycles since 1971 and raced boats for a decade or more. No more boat racing but I still ride scoots and teach the MSF Basic Rider Course in the summer. Between boats and scoots I've probably used up a dozen or more helmets.

Helmets: They should fit the shape of your head, not all helmets will. Try them on and wear them for a 10 or 15 minutes. My head likes Shoeis. I paid about $220 for my last Shoei full-face, about $150 for a Shoei 3/4, both plain pearl white. Shoei also makes solid yellow and orange helmets. The $400+ helmets feature Ricky Racer paints jobs, and that's what you pay for. Not wise expendature since you'll have to paint over the fancy artwork with orange or yellow paint.

I can vouch for Shoei's crashability. Many moons ago I had a 3/4 Shoei on my bean when a geezer did the ol' left turn in front of me. *crash* I sailed over his geezermobile and landed head first, heard the fiberglass/kevlar crunchy sound of the Shoei giving it up. No damage to my head, allthough some folks would question that :-) Bought another Shoei and then a full-face which I find more comfy on the open highway.

Wore Bell helmets when racing boats. Too heavy for long scoot rides, but no problem for heat racing.

[Jeff Lytle]

I used to take a bit of a ribbing about the safety equip. I used to wear. I brushed it off knowing where it was coming from, and it's intent was only another reason not to like the guy who won regularly. Sad huh?

Granted yes, it looked like I was suited up to drive GP Inboards, but every extra piece I added to my gear "added" to my confidence level when driving too.
I'm not the best swimmer in the world--Never was. Always got the "WHAT??" "You race boats and you can't swim??" I never said CAN'T--just not a strong swimmer, that was all.

When I raced in the 700cc Hydro PRO Class, I wore:

Simpson RX Helmet--A bit on the heavy side, but I liked the facial protection.
Security Chute Jacket--Made especially for me as a kneeler
Security "Anti Enema" shorts
Simpson Nomex gloves
Simpson Nomex high top shoes
Leaf 2 piece Nomex single layer driving suit.

As you can see, I took it pretty seriously.
When it came to props and other go fast stuff, My Dad used to tell me "It only costs you 10% more to go 1st class Son" The safety gear I wore was a bit over the edge I must admit, and cost alot more than the minimum standard for today including Kevlars.

For me...........It was all about my own piece of mind...........I didn't care what the others thought.



PS--Don't talk to me.....I've been BAD

PSS--If you're looking for a Deck Rider Sam, I'll ride with you ANY DAY !!

[HRTV]

Hey you are still in time out

[HRTV]

Ok Jeff you have been in time out since 4pm today you can come out now Ok guys its safe to talk with Jeff again

[Jeff Lytle]

I'd probably wet myself anyway Sam !!!


Steve 77T used to recruit light ones too when he ran 1100CCR

Who was it Steve, Deborah.............???





Can I still have Dinner and a bedtime story Dan ?

[Gordie Miller]

Just a little story,

gee, imagine that, me telling a story. Anyway, back in the 70's Fearless Freddy was peddling Lifeline Jackets, which were WAY more expensive than the predominant Gentex of the day. Being kneelers you always had a level handy, ours was a 24" aluminum version. The customer would say, "why would I pay so much more $ for that jacket, mine is just fine. Fred would say, go get your jacket and come back here with a friend. Ten minutes later the potential buyer was back with his jacket(usually Gentex)and friend in tow. Fred would put on his Lifeline, hand the aluminum level to the friend and say, wind up and clobber me in the ribs with that level as hard as you like. They would, Fred might wince a little, then he would say, OK, now you put your jacket on and I'm going to hit you the same way. "The hell you are" was the typical response. Sold quite a few Lifelines that way. Can't do the same test with helmets but you get the point.

[Joe J]

Tom, I went back to a full face helmet this year, along with a neck collar.

The collar does not hamper neck movements at all, and when I blew over my OSY at Depue this year and landed head first, I came away with no neck pains at all.

Our daughter started racing J last year, so I did a ton of research.
After I was done I bought a Bell fullface helmet from Lifeline. The reason was that Bell has different size shells. I wanted her in a full face, but did not want an adult shell filled with foam for her small head.

Did I pay more than I had to? To be honest, I really don't care if I did, I can replace the hundred dollar bill faster than I can replace her.

Joe Johnson

[121TUB]

A little interesting reading

I was reading this thread and it got me to thinking of what the difference between the DOT and Snell ratings were so i did a little research and there is quite a big diffrence. Here is the link to the Snell Memorial Foundation site for the main diffrences between them. http://www.smf.org/articles/dot.html and a comparison between Snell M2000, DOT, BSI 6658-85 Type A and EN 22/05
http://www.smf.org/articles/mcomp2.html

[Jakeroub]

Guys,

Really interesting conversation here. I'm sitting here wearing my full face Bieffe helmet at the computer. The cat's looking at me funny.

Do you guys reccomend getting a tinted face shield? Seems like I could fit sunglasses in here, but it doesnt seem right.

Jake B.

[hydroracer25]

good safety equipment......priceless

Tom/All,

Just a few words from my own experiences. Like an earlier post by Sheryl, I don't crash often (saying that with fingers crossed while knocking on wood) but when I do they've been pretty big ones.

In 1987 (prior to Kevlar) about 10 ASHs piled into a tight river course turn one, 4 of us ended up in the water. I got ran over while in the water. The boat bottom took paint off my helmet. Pitched the helmet after that and bought the best equipment I could ever since then replacing fairly often.

As Gordie, I wear an Arai Signet. Two reasons:
1) It fits me best. All helmets have a slightly different shape. I'd suggest taking your son to a motorcycle/powersports dealer that carries many top brands (Arai, Shoei, AGV, Suomy, Bell, Simpson) and have him try them on. Find one that fits best, note size and then do the price shopping. If not available in Orange or Yellow, buy white as you can get it painted solid for a reasonable price.

2) They are light. I feel the lighter, the better. If you go out of the boat no need for more weight on your head. Of course you may pay more $$ for it.

I probably wear about $1400 worth of safety apparel, but feel its worth every penny as its all that is between a prop, fin or boat and our body and will attest that its proven itself in a few cases.

1) Impact material in lifejact, although not necessary (in SO or MO), saved some ribs last year as the throttle poked me in the chest after a blow-over. Jacket suffered slight rip/tear, but impact material did its job.

2) Kevlar gloves lessened the injuries to my hand after a t-bone crash. I've also wear some "makeshift" Spectra socks (made from sleeves used in sheet metal/glass industry to protect forearm cuts). I'm looking at getting some made for next season as well for trial/sale.

Bottom line, in my opinion is don't splurge in this area. Its just not worth it. Obviously, a growing boy can add to the dilemma. Helmet should fit very well. Lifejacket, Kevlar/Spectra can always be bought a little large for future growth, but adjusted with belts and straps.

Hope this helps some.
Mark

[forshey99]

marketing genius

This topic is marketing genius at work! Ferrari or Corvette? Shoei or El Cheapo? Mr Miller made a remark about capitalism making America go, well so does marketing. There seem to be many of you willing to stand up for products and their brand name be it through testimony, get what you pay for, etc. More likely, you feel safer wearing a product that a recognized authority has told you is better. Your favorite boat, superbike, indy, F1 driver wears a certain brand therefore it must be better. Marketing strategy. You feel as though they know something special about these products that you don't, which isn't really the case.
Cost. Cost is not a mere reflection of quality. It is driven by many factors, quality only being one of them. Availability of materials, finishing, aero testing, mechanisms(i.e. shield pivots), packaging, etc. all factor into the cost of any particular item. Just because a Shoei costs more, does not ensure that it is of higher quality.
Branding. Lexus are designed and engineered by Toyota. Acura by Honda. Infiniti by Nissan. In some cases they are produced at the same assembly facilities and inspected by the same quality control. But ask anyone who paid the extra 10-15 thousand dollars, and they'll tell you there is a world of difference between the American and Japanese badged versions. You be the judge.

In summary, the only way to make an informed decision is to put it in the hands of an outside, objective party. The Snell Foundation is a prime example. They play no favorites, if they rate your El-Cheapo the same as your Shoei, it's because it passed the same standards. Don't get me wrong, the Shoei may have more features, or be constructed to tighter tolerances than some off brand, but the simple fact that it cost more does not make it safer.

Disclaimer: The name Shoei was used as a general catch-all for the upper cost bracket helmets, not a personal attack on Shoei. I've got a Shoei, bought it for $150, works just as good as the Bell I bought for $550.

[Brian10s]

WOW

I didn't think this would cause so much contraversy (Jeff's time out not included).

Now I would have agreed with Gordie and Mark (I being one of the ASH that had orange paint on the wrong side of the sponson back in '87) that you do not go cheap on safety equipment. I still agree with that. Remember the gloves and boots thread? I am all for making us safer. And I am the owner of a 1 1/2 year old $400 Shoei that I happen to love and would not trade for anything.

Now with that all said, I still haven't heard much on what makes a $400 helmet better than a $150 helmet. All this Ferrari vs 'Vette and that you get what you pay for is just opinion. What I was looking for (and not to put you on the spot but Gordie, being a dealer, you should have access to this info) what extra stuff goes into this $400 "racing" helmet that is excluded from the $150 "recreational" helmet? I think that there should be some extra something but is there?

Can someone tell me that there is something extra in a "RACING" helmet and what are the differences? That's the only way to settle this once and for all.

Brian 10s

[epugh66]

what about kevlar chin straps and some nomex lining, is that the difference?

[Tomtall]

Price over quility ?

Some realy good stuff being brought out here guys. I like the storys of the vetriens on this post that have the hands on crash stories that are indeed the true testimonial of what actually happens in a crash. I almost lost my father when I was 12 years old because of a cycle crash he had when not wearing any helmet! I saw him go thru 10 hours of brain surgery, 4 weeks of intensive care and 1 year of rehab. It was devistating to me and my family both mentily and finacially. My son wears a helmet for everything!Skatboarding,biking,rollerblading etc..I told myself after seeing my dad almost die that life is nothing to take for granted! I like the idea of Bell using the different shell sizes. I'm sure they are not the only co. that does this. I also know that the Indy car, NASCAR, Ulimited hydro guys are not price shoppers eather. They will pay $1200 for a helmet. This must say somthing in the price matter verses quility issue. This post could go on and on with pro's and con's on this subject. That makes it only better for the people making their choice in the end. I know I would have a hard time living with myself though knowing my son is dead because I saved $200 on a saftey product. Thanks!!