I am bit confused

[Tomtall]

Production class

This was probably one of the largest stock production classes in OPC racing.Sport "C", Louisville Kentucky, Marithon Nationals. How big is this class today? Why have the #'s droped so? People got bored with it in my belief. It was great in it's day though.

[HRTV]

Good post Tom, here is my answer boat racing in America has no backing, we have several sanctioning bodies across the country but we have no one marketing the sport. So many people will say what about APBA, the answer is forget it, the true definition of APBA is a sanctioning body they have no interest in marketing etc. nor should they. In order to succefully promote and retain drivers in any sport there must be a professional PR marketing firm in place to handle the job of marketing the sport to the masses. We do not have this in Stock Outboard boat racing, we have a sanctioning body which governs the rules and a commission to over see that the rules are followed (SORC) all well and good but you are missing the main component of any succefull sporting venture the marketing PR dept.

[David Weaver]

Are you suggesting that

I'd like to see a stock motor, or spec motor if you like, and a one design boat. This would put our racing more on driver skill rather than boat or prop design or motor design as it is in Pro. Let's compare apples to apples not oranges. If someone wants to get funky let them run mod/pro.

Do you mean that boat and prop design should not be significant elements of a successful driver within SO racing? Or just within your hypothetical class?

By extension of your thought above, should we assume that successful drivers in PRO primarlily win races due to their superior engines and boats? This could be the case. But, I believe that there have been drivers in PRO that won due to skill rather than superior equipment. And, then there are people like me with capable equipment that lack the talent or B*&&s to win in a tough class.

Frankly, when yoiu consider the stroke/bore classes in PRO say from 125cc through 350cc, you have drivers with very similar boats and engines. And, I would suggest that the 50% or more of the contemporary 125 and 250 engines (VRP and GRM) are essentially raced in the same configuration as they left the factory in Italy with less internal machining than the average SO engine.

A friend of mine began racing PRO in addition to SO's (within his family). He said that it is ironic that his child's competitive J / ASX motors had more than $1,000 of intneral work done in order to be competitive, while his PRO engines are competitive right out of the box, as delivered by the factory.

Why not try one class in SO that is restricted as follows:

1) Maximum displacement
2) Must be a "service" motor in its original configuaration
3) Must be naturally aspirated (no EFI, superchargers, etc.)
4) Limit the exaust, so that "sliding pipes" would not be allowed or require confomrity on the exhaust mechanisms.
5) Allow internal modifications, so long as no materials are added to the internal workings (use the original heads without being machined?).
6) Use whatever carb that you want
7) Consider limiting the type of lower unit allowed, such that the same foot is used by all drivers, but the choice of gears can vary with the driver's prerfence.

This is just an idea. It is a little different. Frankly, I have not seen a better viable suggestion put forth, in my opinion.

This discussion also raises the question as to what exatly is Stock Racing? You cannot buy a Ford Taurus and drop that engine into a NASCAR Winston-Cup car and be competitive. The "stock" automobile is simply the base from which to begin from.

Not my category and I have no further thoughts on the subject. Whatever SO figures out, I hope that it works and that it gets done soon.

[BP125V]

I have an idea....

Fall elections are coming up. Obviously our current crop of commissioners, not to mention Ed, are worthless and pretty much suck, so how about you guys who have all of the answers concerning classes, engines, promo etc step up and run for office? That way you can make all the changes as you see fit. While you're at it run for club offices too so you can make sure your local clubs don't run anymore 3 boat heats. (good luck paying the bills)

Seriously. If you guys want to see positive changes to this sport you will have to get involved to help make it happen and posting here on HR.net does not count as being involved. You have to help because the handful of people who do actually work for this sport and make it happen are already spread way too thin. Enough of the armchair quarterbacking.... GET INVOLVED!!!

Bill

PS Kudos to Tony Perman. He expresses his ideas here too, but at least he is willing to get involved to make things happen.

[T Chance]

I'd like to see a stock motor, or spec motor if you like, and a one design boat. This would put our racing more on driver skill rather than boat or prop design or motor design as it is in Pro. Let's compare apples to apples not oranges. If someone wants to get funky let them run mod/pro.

Is this to suggest it takes less skill to drive a Pro boat?

[Steve Johnson]

?que est mas machos?

[Dave M]

Ironic

This same discussion comes up almost each year. It almost always turns into a pissing match between categories. Is Pro better than Stock ? Is Mod better than Pro ? Is stock better than any of them ? Hell no, it is personal preference as to what you run. And the one very, very, very common theme is that each person is passionate about boat racing. That leads to a lot of pissing matches between categories. Perhaps some day it will all be one, but I doubt it now. Hell if everyone can't even get along on a forum how the hell are they going to get along in reality ?

And I agree with whoever basically said, put your money where your mouth is. Get involved.

Now then, to add another spin, why not go with the two strokes from Evenrude ? Still available, and are NOT affected by the EPA laws. They are the E-Tech engines. They still build them new..... Would add to inspection as well, but they are two strokes... If you don't want to see the four strokes.

Have a fun debate, maybe we all should go back and refresh our opinions from the last few years threads on this subject ?

[Big Don]

None of them are better than the other one. The good drivers can jump form boat to boat and from category to category and still be the best. Everyone races what they want for their own personal reasons.

I suggest the next time someone makes a ridicules statement like that everyone just ignore it and move on.

[Lights]

None of them are better than the other one. The good drivers can jump form boat to boat and from category to category and still be the best. Everyone races what they want for their own personal reasons.

I suggest the next time someone makes a ridicules statement like that everyone just ignore it and move on.

I agree with you Donny. You did a great Job of driving the M14 125H this last weekend. I am not having a pissing match about the 3 boat heats all I was saying is it would have been more exciting in MY eyes to have seen a full field of those A size runabouts out there racing.

Mark

[HRTV]

This same discussion comes up almost each year. It almost always turns into a pissing match between categories. Is Pro better than Stock ? Is Mod better than Pro ? Is stock better than any of them ? Hell no, it is personal preference as to what you run. And the one very, very, very common theme is that each person is passionate about boat racing. That leads to a lot of pissing matches between categories. Perhaps some day it will all be one, but I doubt it now. Hell if everyone can't even get along on a forum how the hell are they going to get along in reality ?

And I agree with whoever basically said, put your money where your mouth is. Get involved.

Now then, to add another spin, why not go with the two strokes from Evenrude ? Still available, and are NOT affected by the EPA laws. They are the E-Tech engines. They still build them new..... Would add to inspection as well, but they are two strokes... If you don't want to see the four strokes.

Have a fun debate, maybe we all should go back and refresh our opinions from the last few years threads on this subject ?

Dave,

Since I am the original poster of the current thread let me clarify, I have one simple question to anyone who can answer it no pissing match needed all though you are correct it always turns into one. Why is it that year after year the SORC has never voted on the idea of running a stock Evindrude or what ever two stroke off the shelf power head on a universal mid section for Stock Outboard thats all I want to know.

[csh2z]

We have debated this issue quite often over the years. All of the suggestions that have been brought up here on Hydroracer have been discussed very thoroughly. Finally, within the last couple of years, we have been presented with two great opportunities. Thanks to people like Rick Montoya, Dave Scott, the Bass bros., Ron Selawach and Tad Olsen, we will have "new production motors" available to us for all of our classes the foreseeable future. The motors that are being offered, suit our needs and desires to have a sport that we can control (to a point) without changing who we are or what we do. All new motors will remain STOCK as defined by the MANUFACTURER not the SORC. This is the path we have chosen out of the many options we had. Right or wrong we are 100% committed to making this sport the best it can be. The one thing we have all agreed on throughout the years is that in spite of all our flaws the product we put on the water is second to none and the foundation that we have should not be compromised.

[Big Don]

Lights. This is Donny's Dad. He has a different sign on.

Don't worry about the 3 boat comment, just giving you a hard time. I hate 3 boat races also.

[14-H]

Hey Phil,

I just don't understand the logic of trying to build a complete motor from the ground up **** but my God what a risky investment in my opinion.

I totally agree: a few minor changes to the Hot Rod and the engine could have been back in production. The effort should have been put towards building an engine for the A and J classes which do not exist and for which there is a market. Rather than doing this, however, it appears a massive effort to build a totally new engine was undertaken which, as has become apparent, is now bogged down in development.

We should be looking at totally stock engines. The problem, of course, is that the weight of these engines will obsolete all of our existing stuff. Maybe we need to look at adding one of these sit-down v-bottom runabout classes (small size) in Stock Outboard and see if it takes off.

Good luck to the new SO Chairman and SORC. I get the bird's eye view from Nov. 1 forward. Eddie.

[14-H]

IF they (2-strokes) were readily available in the states then, I'd agree 100%, but to my knowledge they are not any longer. ***
Mark

The EPA just recently adopted even more stringent emission rules for production outboards which the boating industry believes will all but eliminate the remaining two-stroke outboards (even the newest ones built by Bombardier) from being produced for sale in the U.S.

Manufacturers can pollute overseas: just not here. What B.S.!

[14-H]

***Now then, to add another spin, why not go with the two strokes from Evenrude ? Still available, and are NOT affected by the EPA laws. They are the E-Tech engines. They still build them new..... Would add to inspection as well, but they are two strokes... If you don't want to see the four strokes.
**?

Dave: the latest articles by the boating industry know-it-alls seem to suggest that the newest EPA rules will not allow the E-Techs to continue to be sold in the U.S.. This is NOT the position of Bombardier; just speculation by those who watch the industry based upon the reading of the new regulations. Ed.