I am bit confused

[Cameraboy]

The endeavor that has been undertaken is more akin to launching a missle to kill a mouse.

But it was an endeavor undertaken instead of yet another band-aid approach or more hand-wringing. It was either that endeavor, what the Bass brothers are trying, or bite the 4-stroke grenade. An electrified wire up the mouse's kazoo may have been more elegant and efficient, but I haven't seen that proposal.

Paralysis by analysis, just like any other representative organization. Pot, meet kettle - kettle, meet pot.

[Jeff Akers]

The EPA just recently adopted even more stringent emission rules for production outboards which the boating industry believes will all but eliminate the remaining two-stroke outboards (even the newest ones built by Bombardier) from being produced for sale in the U.S.

Manufacturers can pollute overseas: just not here. What B.S.!

Ed, could you please let me in on this "insider" information ? ( Who said what , and in what publication ? ) .........I get Boating Industry Magazine at the Bombardeier Dealership I work at and have not heard a word of this in that publication or from anyone else for that mater.....


EPA:
Ask the Bass Brothers on how to get an engine exempt from EPA.....They have done it with the Tohatsu ......Most of the outboard engine manufacterers still make and sell carbed two stokes.( although they are limmited)......It's a big world out there, and the USA is not the only market

[14-H]

Ed, Are you in denial about the quality and dependability of the HotRod?

Whatever, John: that is no justification for the project that has been undertaken. Any problem with the dependability of the HR (& I don't agree that the HR is any less dependable than any other racing engine) could have easily been fixed by knocking a few hundred RPMs off of the performance of the current engine (ie: add 1 or 2 more cc's to the head). The entire engine did not need to be re-engineered.

The endeavor that has been undertaken is more akin to launching a missle to kill a mouse.

That's just my opinion, though. I hope Sidewinder succeeds. Don't get me wrong. Just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, expense and delay that is going to cause the engine to be more expensive in the end.

What the hell do I know, though? I'm just a stupid lawyer. Ed.

Do you mean that boat and prop design should not be significant elements of a successful driver within SO racing? Or just within your hypothetical class?

By extension of your thought above, should we assume that successful drivers in PRO primarlily win races due to their superior engines and boats? .

1) Yes, 2) Yes, 3) Ye$.

[csh2z]

Ed, Are you in denial about the quality and dependability of the HotRod?

[BP125V]

make up your mind

Lights. This is Donny's Dad. He has a different sign on.

Don't worry about the 3 boat comment, just giving you a hard time. I hate 3 boat races also.

Don, I thought you hated 4 boat races. Now you hate 3 boat races too?!?

Bill

[raceright]

Dave: the latest articles by the boating industry know-it-alls seem to suggest that the newest EPA rules will not allow the E-Techs to continue to be sold in the U.S.. This is NOT the position of Bombardier; just speculation by those who watch the industry based upon the reading of the new regulations. Ed.

Sounds like behind the closed door deals to me..Anyone ever think about running menthanol with Bean oil.

Oh Ed trying a production engine from the shelf---Did You say that????

Pat
Top Hydro Because in the end there can only be one

[14-H]

***Now then, to add another spin, why not go with the two strokes from Evenrude ? Still available, and are NOT affected by the EPA laws. They are the E-Tech engines. They still build them new..... Would add to inspection as well, but they are two strokes... If you don't want to see the four strokes.
**?

Dave: the latest articles by the boating industry know-it-alls seem to suggest that the newest EPA rules will not allow the E-Techs to continue to be sold in the U.S.. This is NOT the position of Bombardier; just speculation by those who watch the industry based upon the reading of the new regulations. Ed.

[14-H]

IF they (2-strokes) were readily available in the states then, I'd agree 100%, but to my knowledge they are not any longer. ***
Mark

The EPA just recently adopted even more stringent emission rules for production outboards which the boating industry believes will all but eliminate the remaining two-stroke outboards (even the newest ones built by Bombardier) from being produced for sale in the U.S.

Manufacturers can pollute overseas: just not here. What B.S.!

[14-H]

Hey Phil,

I just don't understand the logic of trying to build a complete motor from the ground up **** but my God what a risky investment in my opinion.

I totally agree: a few minor changes to the Hot Rod and the engine could have been back in production. The effort should have been put towards building an engine for the A and J classes which do not exist and for which there is a market. Rather than doing this, however, it appears a massive effort to build a totally new engine was undertaken which, as has become apparent, is now bogged down in development.

We should be looking at totally stock engines. The problem, of course, is that the weight of these engines will obsolete all of our existing stuff. Maybe we need to look at adding one of these sit-down v-bottom runabout classes (small size) in Stock Outboard and see if it takes off.

Good luck to the new SO Chairman and SORC. I get the bird's eye view from Nov. 1 forward. Eddie.

[Big Don]

Lights. This is Donny's Dad. He has a different sign on.

Don't worry about the 3 boat comment, just giving you a hard time. I hate 3 boat races also.

[csh2z]

We have debated this issue quite often over the years. All of the suggestions that have been brought up here on Hydroracer have been discussed very thoroughly. Finally, within the last couple of years, we have been presented with two great opportunities. Thanks to people like Rick Montoya, Dave Scott, the Bass bros., Ron Selawach and Tad Olsen, we will have "new production motors" available to us for all of our classes the foreseeable future. The motors that are being offered, suit our needs and desires to have a sport that we can control (to a point) without changing who we are or what we do. All new motors will remain STOCK as defined by the MANUFACTURER not the SORC. This is the path we have chosen out of the many options we had. Right or wrong we are 100% committed to making this sport the best it can be. The one thing we have all agreed on throughout the years is that in spite of all our flaws the product we put on the water is second to none and the foundation that we have should not be compromised.

[HRTV]

This same discussion comes up almost each year. It almost always turns into a pissing match between categories. Is Pro better than Stock ? Is Mod better than Pro ? Is stock better than any of them ? Hell no, it is personal preference as to what you run. And the one very, very, very common theme is that each person is passionate about boat racing. That leads to a lot of pissing matches between categories. Perhaps some day it will all be one, but I doubt it now. Hell if everyone can't even get along on a forum how the hell are they going to get along in reality ?

And I agree with whoever basically said, put your money where your mouth is. Get involved.

Now then, to add another spin, why not go with the two strokes from Evenrude ? Still available, and are NOT affected by the EPA laws. They are the E-Tech engines. They still build them new..... Would add to inspection as well, but they are two strokes... If you don't want to see the four strokes.

Have a fun debate, maybe we all should go back and refresh our opinions from the last few years threads on this subject ?

Dave,

Since I am the original poster of the current thread let me clarify, I have one simple question to anyone who can answer it no pissing match needed all though you are correct it always turns into one. Why is it that year after year the SORC has never voted on the idea of running a stock Evindrude or what ever two stroke off the shelf power head on a universal mid section for Stock Outboard thats all I want to know.

[Lights]

None of them are better than the other one. The good drivers can jump form boat to boat and from category to category and still be the best. Everyone races what they want for their own personal reasons.

I suggest the next time someone makes a ridicules statement like that everyone just ignore it and move on.

I agree with you Donny. You did a great Job of driving the M14 125H this last weekend. I am not having a pissing match about the 3 boat heats all I was saying is it would have been more exciting in MY eyes to have seen a full field of those A size runabouts out there racing.

Mark

[Big Don]

None of them are better than the other one. The good drivers can jump form boat to boat and from category to category and still be the best. Everyone races what they want for their own personal reasons.

I suggest the next time someone makes a ridicules statement like that everyone just ignore it and move on.