I am bit confused

[hydroracer25]

..tell

why can't a 4-stroke be used? Sure, they're a wee bit heavier, but I don't see many of our *sturdier* drivers signing up for Jenny Craig, so that bags the weight protest.

Where is Ron Hill? Champion of the one design out-of-the-box boat racing idea.

1) Power to weight ratio to get the same speed as lets us say a 24ci (~400cc) Yamato you will probably need a 40 4-stroke. Thus even more weight for similar speeds. Not to mention the 15 Hp 4-stroke Honda the Mod commision tested was rev limited.

2a) complexity....if you think there's too many ways to cheat now...wait until 4-strokes are implemented in boat racing. But we'll just make a rule that no one can cheat.

2b) our already taxed inspectors now have to deal with the potential issue in 2a, but that's right, no one's going to cheat.

3) how the hell do you dry one out when you tip over. Not that they'll tip over, being more top heavy. So...we'll implement a rule that no one can tip over their 4-stroke to make sure this won't be an issue.

Sorry Bill for the rant, I just don't see 4-strokes working and I'm not alone in these thoughts.

Bring Ron Hill in...I'm sure he can dispute my points.

Mark

[hydroracer25]

Hey Mark,

What is this ? seven two stroke power heads that could be put on a universal mid section am I wrong ?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...e/11/home.aspx

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...e/10/home.aspx

Your not wrong, BUT you will need to find out how long Yamaha plans to supply 2-strokes in the U.S. They are the last manufacturer to still sell them. No Merc, No Evinrude/Johnson, No Honda, No Tohatsu*.....

Therefore, unless you can get Mr. Magoo or Daddy Warbuck$ to buy up about 250 of them and store them until they can be sold on a universal towers, you run the risk of implementing something that can not be sustained for a long enough period to help out. And then the ones that did buy them feel there investment was wasted when there class is combined or restricted to run with something else.

*they still sell small (ie. 40/50 HP DI engines)

Mark

[Bill Huson]

Do tell . . .

why can't a 4-stroke be used? Sure, they're a wee bit heavier, but I don't see many of our *sturdier* drivers signing up for Jenny Craig, so that bags the weight protest.

Where is Ron Hill? Champion of the one design out-of-the-box boat racing idea.

[HRTV]

Problem is that 2-stroke outboards (production form) are just not available in the U.S. any longer...and before someone says "4-strokes" , they are not going to work for numerous reasons on a small outboards (hydro or runabout). Therefore, our few remaining options are:

1) support efforts like the sidewinder and have patience, it's only a 2-man team.
2) support efforts like Bass/Dave Scott (taking 2-stroke fishing powerheads) and bolting to a racing lower unit/mid-section
3) race yamatos and buy the 302s while they are still available.

Yes, it would be great to have all manufactures like Bombardier, Merc, Yamaha....supporting us, but the truth be told it's highly unlikely ever again.

I think the question should be asked how many of the engines in those pictures are 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes and how old are those engines (date of manufacture). If a guy from Europe or China for that matter looked at a group of DSH pictures racing in the Midwest, he might ask why don't we race the good looking 44 Mercs in our country. Answer, because they haven't been available in race trim from the manufacturer for over 15 years. But we still race them.

Not trying to p!ss on the parade, but small (stock/mod) outboards can't run a big long shaft 4-strokes. Maybe someone from the OPC ranks should be asked the same question.

Mark

Hey Mark,

What is this ? seven two stroke power heads that could be put on a universal mid section am I wrong ?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...e/11/home.aspx

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...e/10/home.aspx

[hydroracer25]

Correct we all know that Stock/Mod outboards cannot run on long shafts any dummy knows that, but why cant that same power head be put on a universal short shaft ?

IF they (2-strokes) were readily available in the states then, I'd agree 100%, but to my knowledge they are not any longer. I do agree that universal tower housing/mid-sections are a very integral part of the equation and we do need them.

The problem goes beyond long shaft / short shaft and more to 2-stroke/4-stroke and power to weight ratio, complexity of inspections, complexity of engine....

The idea of a new "bone stock" sit down 12'-13' mono hull with a 15 Hp engine is OK, but to my knowledge that is there "J" class or Novice class and probably doesn't run over 35-40mph. Once you start "sitting" people down in boats you better start thinking about capsules...and then it is too heavy to be powered by a 15 Hp.

I'm still not saying this concept or class is a bad idea, just where do you put it (SO or OPC or even J-Category), and depending on where you put it will dictate the safety constraints.

Mark

[HRTV]

Problem is that 2-stroke outboards (production form) are just not available in the U.S. any longer...and before someone says "4-strokes" , they are not going to work for numerous reasons on a small outboards (hydro or runabout). Therefore, our few remaining options are:

1) support efforts like the sidewinder and have patience, it's only a 2-man team.
2) support efforts like Bass/Dave Scott (taking 2-stroke fishing powerheads) and bolting to a racing lower unit/mid-section
3) race yamatos and buy the 302s while they are still available.

Yes, it would be great to have all manufactures like Bombardier, Merc, Yamaha....supporting us, but the truth be told it's highly unlikely ever again.

I think the question should be asked how many of the engines in those pictures are 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes and how old are those engines (date of manufacture). If a guy from Europe or China for that matter looked at a group of DSH pictures racing in the Midwest, he might ask why don't we race the good looking 44 Mercs in our country. Answer, because they haven't been available in race trim from the manufacturer for over 15 years. But we still race them.

Not trying to p!ss on the parade, but small (stock/mod) outboards can't run a big long shaft 4-strokes. Maybe someone from the OPC ranks should be asked the same question.

Mark

Correct we all know that Stock/Mod outboards cannot run on long shafts any dummy knows that, but why cant that same power head be put on a universal short shaft ?

[HRTV]

Problem is that 2-stroke outboards (production form) are just not available in the U.S. any longer...and before someone says "4-strokes" , they are not going to work for numerous reasons on a small outboards (hydro or runabout). Therefore, our few remaining options are:

1) support efforts like the sidewinder and have patience, it's only a 2-man team.
2) support efforts like Bass/Dave Scott (taking 2-stroke fishing powerheads) and bolting to a racing lower unit/mid-section
3) race yamatos and buy the 302s while they are still available.

Yes, it would be great to have all manufactures like Bombardier, Merc, Yamaha....supporting us, but the truth be told it's highly unlikely ever again.

I think the question should be asked how many of the engines in those pictures are 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes and how old are those engines (date of manufacture). If a guy from Europe or China for that matter looked at a group of DSH pictures racing in the Midwest, he might ask why don't we race the good looking 44 Mercs in our country. Answer, because they haven't been available in race trim from the manufacturer for over 15 years. But we still race them.

Not trying to p!ss on the parade, but small (stock/mod) outboards can't run a big long shaft 4-strokes. Maybe someone from the OPC ranks should be asked the same question.

Mark

Hey Mark

Don't get me wrong I am behind Bass, SideWinder and Dave Scott 100% I just put an ad for Bass Brother on Monday and have banners for Dave Scott and SideWinder. I am just trying to think out of the box and see what other might think.

[HRTV]

They did it in car racing. It's called IROC. The most boring racing Iv'e ever watched. Talk about a parade.

Tom,

Take a look at the last photo in my original post for me that sums up the future of Stock Outboard Racing many will not agree but thats my opinion. I have no idea what they call the class in Europe but it appears to be a bone stock no frills sit down 12-13' runabout with a store bought 15hp motor.

This is a class that any John or Jane Doe in just about any place in America could race and have a great time and what is needed to spark interest back into the sport "bone stock" no fancy kneel down ASH etc. I am not saying do away with any of the current stock classes but I am suggesting that a new "bone stock" class using a standard of the shelf long shaft outboard be introduced into the Stock Outboard line up, a motor that can be bought and worked on by your local corner marine dealer for the guy or gal who is not mechanically inclined etc.

[hydroracer25]

....IF they were available!

Problem is that 2-stroke outboards (production form) are just not available in the U.S. any longer...and before someone says "4-strokes" , they are not going to work for numerous reasons on a small outboards (hydro or runabout). Therefore, our few remaining options are:

1) support efforts like the sidewinder and have patience, it's only a 2-man team.
2) support efforts like Bass/Dave Scott (taking 2-stroke fishing powerheads) and bolting to a racing lower unit/mid-section
3) race yamatos and buy the 302s while they are still available.

Yes, it would be great to have all manufactures like Bombardier, Merc, Yamaha....supporting us, but the truth be told it's highly unlikely ever again.

I think the question should be asked how many of the engines in those pictures are 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes and how old are those engines (date of manufacture). If a guy from Europe or China for that matter looked at a group of DSH pictures racing in the Midwest, he might ask why don't we race the good looking 44 Mercs in our country. Answer, because they haven't been available in race trim from the manufacturer for over 15 years. But we still race them.

Not trying to p!ss on the parade, but small (stock/mod) outboards can't run a big long shaft 4-strokes. Maybe someone from the OPC ranks should be asked the same question.

Mark

[PopPop]

And watching a three boat heat makes you sit on the edge of your seat ?

Dead on Dan !!!

[HRTV]

They did it in car racing. It's called IROC. The most boring racing Iv'e ever watched. Talk about a parade.

And watching a three boat heat makes you sit on the edge of your seat ?

[HRTV]

I'd like to see a stock motor, or spec motor if you like, and a one design boat. This would put our racing more on driver skill rather than boat or prop design or motor design as it is in Pro. Let's compare apples to apples not oranges. If someone wants to get funky let them run mod/pro.

Doug,

I agree 100% thats why we have Mod & Pro for the guy or gal who wants to take that route.

[Tomtall]

Oh

I'd like to see a stock motor, or spec motor if you like, and a one design boat. This would put our racing more on driver skill rather than boat or prop design or motor design as it is in Pro. Let's compare apples to apples not oranges. If someone wants to get funky let them run mod/pro.

They did it in car racing. It's called IROC. The most boring racing Iv'e ever watched. Talk about a parade.

Not sure if I have ask this question before but I am bit confused on the topic of new motors here in the states when it appears in Europe that they run several off the shelf stock long shaft outboard motors in a number of different classes All six of these photos were taken last month at race in Europe, all these motors seem to be stock long shaft motors straight from the local dealer

My point is what the hell is our problem here in the states ? is this an EPA issue or something here in the US ? Why are we not running these motors ? If they are legal motors for lake recreation in the US why not racing ? I'm still lost on this whole SideWinder Motor project seems all we need is a universal mid section and gear case, why are we reinventing the wheel when Mercury, Jon Rude and Yamaha did this 45 / 50 years ago ?

I'd like to see a stock motor, or spec motor if you like, and a one design boat. This would put our racing more on driver skill rather than boat or prop design or motor design as it is in Pro. Let's compare apples to apples not oranges. If someone wants to get funky let them run mod/pro.

[KG4]

Not sure if I have ask this question before but I am bit confused on the topic of new motors here in the states when it appears in Europe that they run several off the shelf stock long shaft outboard motors in a number of different classes All six of these photos were taken last month at race in Europe, all these motors seem to be stock long shaft motors straight from the local dealer

My point is what the hell is our problem here in the states ? is this an EPA issue or something here in the US ? Why are we not running these motors ? If they are legal motors for lake recreation in the US why not racing ? I'm still lost on this whole SideWinder Motor project seems all we need is a universal mid section and gear case, why are we reinventing the wheel when Mercury, Jon Rude and Yamaha did this 45 / 50 years ago ?

I agree with you 100%,There is a lot of good engines out there that would work great.