I am bit confused

[HRTV]

Problem is that 2-stroke outboards (production form) are just not available in the U.S. any longer...and before someone says "4-strokes" , they are not going to work for numerous reasons on a small outboards (hydro or runabout). Therefore, our few remaining options are:

1) support efforts like the sidewinder and have patience, it's only a 2-man team.
2) support efforts like Bass/Dave Scott (taking 2-stroke fishing powerheads) and bolting to a racing lower unit/mid-section
3) race yamatos and buy the 302s while they are still available.

Yes, it would be great to have all manufactures like Bombardier, Merc, Yamaha....supporting us, but the truth be told it's highly unlikely ever again.

I think the question should be asked how many of the engines in those pictures are 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes and how old are those engines (date of manufacture). If a guy from Europe or China for that matter looked at a group of DSH pictures racing in the Midwest, he might ask why don't we race the good looking 44 Mercs in our country. Answer, because they haven't been available in race trim from the manufacturer for over 15 years. But we still race them.

Not trying to p!ss on the parade, but small (stock/mod) outboards can't run a big long shaft 4-strokes. Maybe someone from the OPC ranks should be asked the same question.

Mark

Hey Mark

Don't get me wrong I am behind Bass, SideWinder and Dave Scott 100% I just put an ad for Bass Brother on Monday and have banners for Dave Scott and SideWinder. I am just trying to think out of the box and see what other might think.

[HRTV]

Problem is that 2-stroke outboards (production form) are just not available in the U.S. any longer...and before someone says "4-strokes" , they are not going to work for numerous reasons on a small outboards (hydro or runabout). Therefore, our few remaining options are:

1) support efforts like the sidewinder and have patience, it's only a 2-man team.
2) support efforts like Bass/Dave Scott (taking 2-stroke fishing powerheads) and bolting to a racing lower unit/mid-section
3) race yamatos and buy the 302s while they are still available.

Yes, it would be great to have all manufactures like Bombardier, Merc, Yamaha....supporting us, but the truth be told it's highly unlikely ever again.

I think the question should be asked how many of the engines in those pictures are 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes and how old are those engines (date of manufacture). If a guy from Europe or China for that matter looked at a group of DSH pictures racing in the Midwest, he might ask why don't we race the good looking 44 Mercs in our country. Answer, because they haven't been available in race trim from the manufacturer for over 15 years. But we still race them.

Not trying to p!ss on the parade, but small (stock/mod) outboards can't run a big long shaft 4-strokes. Maybe someone from the OPC ranks should be asked the same question.

Mark

Correct we all know that Stock/Mod outboards cannot run on long shafts any dummy knows that, but why cant that same power head be put on a universal short shaft ?

[hydroracer25]

Correct we all know that Stock/Mod outboards cannot run on long shafts any dummy knows that, but why cant that same power head be put on a universal short shaft ?

IF they (2-strokes) were readily available in the states then, I'd agree 100%, but to my knowledge they are not any longer. I do agree that universal tower housing/mid-sections are a very integral part of the equation and we do need them.

The problem goes beyond long shaft / short shaft and more to 2-stroke/4-stroke and power to weight ratio, complexity of inspections, complexity of engine....

The idea of a new "bone stock" sit down 12'-13' mono hull with a 15 Hp engine is OK, but to my knowledge that is there "J" class or Novice class and probably doesn't run over 35-40mph. Once you start "sitting" people down in boats you better start thinking about capsules...and then it is too heavy to be powered by a 15 Hp.

I'm still not saying this concept or class is a bad idea, just where do you put it (SO or OPC or even J-Category), and depending on where you put it will dictate the safety constraints.

Mark

[HRTV]

Problem is that 2-stroke outboards (production form) are just not available in the U.S. any longer...and before someone says "4-strokes" , they are not going to work for numerous reasons on a small outboards (hydro or runabout). Therefore, our few remaining options are:

1) support efforts like the sidewinder and have patience, it's only a 2-man team.
2) support efforts like Bass/Dave Scott (taking 2-stroke fishing powerheads) and bolting to a racing lower unit/mid-section
3) race yamatos and buy the 302s while they are still available.

Yes, it would be great to have all manufactures like Bombardier, Merc, Yamaha....supporting us, but the truth be told it's highly unlikely ever again.

I think the question should be asked how many of the engines in those pictures are 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes and how old are those engines (date of manufacture). If a guy from Europe or China for that matter looked at a group of DSH pictures racing in the Midwest, he might ask why don't we race the good looking 44 Mercs in our country. Answer, because they haven't been available in race trim from the manufacturer for over 15 years. But we still race them.

Not trying to p!ss on the parade, but small (stock/mod) outboards can't run a big long shaft 4-strokes. Maybe someone from the OPC ranks should be asked the same question.

Mark

Hey Mark,

What is this ? seven two stroke power heads that could be put on a universal mid section am I wrong ?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...e/11/home.aspx

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...e/10/home.aspx

[Bill Huson]

Do tell . . .

why can't a 4-stroke be used? Sure, they're a wee bit heavier, but I don't see many of our *sturdier* drivers signing up for Jenny Craig, so that bags the weight protest.

Where is Ron Hill? Champion of the one design out-of-the-box boat racing idea.

[hydroracer25]

Hey Mark,

What is this ? seven two stroke power heads that could be put on a universal mid section am I wrong ?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...e/11/home.aspx

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...e/10/home.aspx

Your not wrong, BUT you will need to find out how long Yamaha plans to supply 2-strokes in the U.S. They are the last manufacturer to still sell them. No Merc, No Evinrude/Johnson, No Honda, No Tohatsu*.....

Therefore, unless you can get Mr. Magoo or Daddy Warbuck$ to buy up about 250 of them and store them until they can be sold on a universal towers, you run the risk of implementing something that can not be sustained for a long enough period to help out. And then the ones that did buy them feel there investment was wasted when there class is combined or restricted to run with something else.

*they still sell small (ie. 40/50 HP DI engines)

Mark

[hydroracer25]

..tell

why can't a 4-stroke be used? Sure, they're a wee bit heavier, but I don't see many of our *sturdier* drivers signing up for Jenny Craig, so that bags the weight protest.

Where is Ron Hill? Champion of the one design out-of-the-box boat racing idea.

1) Power to weight ratio to get the same speed as lets us say a 24ci (~400cc) Yamato you will probably need a 40 4-stroke. Thus even more weight for similar speeds. Not to mention the 15 Hp 4-stroke Honda the Mod commision tested was rev limited.

2a) complexity....if you think there's too many ways to cheat now...wait until 4-strokes are implemented in boat racing. But we'll just make a rule that no one can cheat.

2b) our already taxed inspectors now have to deal with the potential issue in 2a, but that's right, no one's going to cheat.

3) how the hell do you dry one out when you tip over. Not that they'll tip over, being more top heavy. So...we'll implement a rule that no one can tip over their 4-stroke to make sure this won't be an issue.

Sorry Bill for the rant, I just don't see 4-strokes working and I'm not alone in these thoughts.

Bring Ron Hill in...I'm sure he can dispute my points.

Mark

[hydroracer25]

I'm done now

It's been fun debating tonight, but I got to go to bed...been a long day already.

Mark

[HRTV]

It's been fun debating tonight, but I got to go to bed...been a long day already.

Mark

Good debate Mark I'm also done for the night, lets pick it up tomorrow its time for the west coast crew to take over for the night.

[DougMc]

Check out this link.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...alculator.aspx

[HRTV]

Check out this link.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...alculator.aspx

Go to bed Doug shouldn't you be out on the campaign trail

[Lights]

And watching a three boat heat makes you sit on the edge of your seat ?

I watched a bit of that this weekend. Lets see ASXR, FAR same darn three boats motor and drivers. Can you say Boring.

[Big Don]

Wrong....AXSR didn't run last weekend there were only two of them.

[Lights]

Wrong....AXSR didn't run last weekend there were only two of them.

OK I'm wrong on the class (s). But while I was in the turn boat for what seamed like eternity there was a bunch of three boat heats.

Mark

[Cameraboy]

Your not wrong, BUT you will need to find out how long Yamaha plans to supply 2-strokes in the U.S. They are the last manufacturer to still sell them. No Merc, No Evinrude/Johnson, No Honda, No Tohatsu*.....

*they still sell small (ie. 40/50 HP DI engines)

Mark

Mark, this article is a year old, and it is talking about big motors, because the DFI technology is used on motors for larger, more cost effective markets.

http://www.yachtingmagazine.com/yach...169547,00.html