I am bit confused

[jeff55v]

Been there done that.

Why is it that year after year the SORC has never voted on the idea of running a stock Evindrude or what ever two stroke off the shelf power head on a universal mid section for Stock Outboard thats all I want to know.

We've all seen the obstacles Bass Machines faced with their project. Many people called out for data, testing, results, etc. Before the engine would be accepted as a viable D engine. Fair enough, BUT. Think about what Bass Machines had to do in order to get to the point where they could even submit an engine for D stock.
Bass machines recognized the need for a new motor in D class.
1.) Bass Machines already produced a NEW top quality gearcase.
2.) They selected an "in the ballpark" powerhead.
3.) Bass Machines obtained an EPA waiver to import the powerhead and got an American distributor approval from Tohatsu America.
4.) They engineered and manufactured all the needed components to make this stock powerhead raceable. (towerhousing, clamps, throttle, etc)
And I'm sure there's much more time, money and testing they invested in this new motor that I forgot to mention. All of this BEFORE knowing if the motor would be approved into the APBA or not.

My point is: This task of putting a stock powerhead onto a "universal" towerhousing and gearcase is not easy or cheap, but, it IS do-able. If somebody wants to do it they just need to DO IT. (and hope it is met with approval)

Now you'll have to excuse me while I go race my new and stock service type powerhead mounted onto a racing towerhousing and lower unit.
Cheers.

[csh2z]

Dan, In answer to your question. The SORC, up until the last few years, has been unwilling to make a firm commitment to addressing these issues. One major factor was, how would the EPA regulations of 2006 effect Stock Outboard. Bear in mind, that we all new, years in advance that new laws were coming, but did not have a clue what they would be. We are still dealing with EPA issues now, both with the motor issues and the gas issues. It is very difficult to make decisions with the future of the sport at stake,when you don't know what will be available in the future. It seems that no matter what we do, or don't do we will not satisfy everyone. We have a plan, it is being executed, and it will help us to grow the sport. Please re-read my post on pg. 3 from yesterday at 12:54. Hopefully, your question has been answered.

[raceright]

Dan's idea may have some merrit of a bolt on service type of class. I think the problem is that it's out of the mold of what we think a stock class should be.

Here's some food for thought. Many may not know this but one of the largest classes at the pro nationals was c-service. There were elims in both hydro and runabout. How is it that a class of motors almost 80 years old still has appeal? They aren't running all that fast. The are heavier then hel and tempermental, dimension rules on the boats, minimum weight yet really good participation.

I have been a hired gun driving the antiques the last 4 or 5 years at Depue. I have gained a lot of respect for the old iron. What I have come to learn is it's not how fast you go but the competition. There has been a thread about the great JSR race at Pleasent Prairie. J's can sometimes be like watching paint dry but if you put a few good rigs out there with competant drivers you can have a great race running 30 mph or 90 mph.

Tim

Old Iron is pretty cool I believe for the most part most rigs have some sort of history to them and friends or grand children are keeping this class alive.
Actually pretty cool.
As for what makes a great race Probably to me it is Unlimited Hydro incredable and always a small number on the race course.
Great races are in the eye's of the beholder(wish some people would learn this)

Pat

[David Weaver]

If I got this right..

So yes I do believe that Pro results are based more on hull and motor than driver skill. You could put the best Pro driver in the biggest pig of a boat out there and he won't keep up with the state of the art Pro rig with a less skilled driver.

So why does my boat compete for first with Brandon Thirlby driving it and compete for 4th or 5th when I drive it? It could be that with me driving, you have the biggest pig of a driver within a state of the art boat!!

By extension of your suggestion, are you saying that any moderately experienced driver should be able to get behind the wheel of the Thirlby's 500cc runabout and "walk the field". By the way, Mike Thirlby is not running a quite state-of-the-art 500cc engine and he still is the man to beat because....he drives as efficiently as anyone in outboard racing and is often able to beat faster, newer engines due to clutch starts and position on the course. He also does not give in.

[Tim Weber]

Dan's idea may have some merrit of a bolt on service type of class. I think the problem is that it's out of the mold of what we think a stock class should be.

Here's some food for thought. Many may not know this but one of the largest classes at the pro nationals was c-service. There were elims in both hydro and runabout. How is it that a class of motors almost 80 years old still has appeal? They aren't running all that fast. The are heavier then hel and tempermental, dimension rules on the boats, minimum weight yet really good participation.

I have been a hired gun driving the antiques the last 4 or 5 years at Depue. I have gained a lot of respect for the old iron. What I have come to learn is it's not how fast you go but the competition. There has been a thread about the great JSR race at Pleasent Prairie. J's can sometimes be like watching paint dry but if you put a few good rigs out there with competant drivers you can have a great race running 30 mph or 90 mph.

Tim

[Big Don]

Sorry Mr. Allen, I just noticed that Donny's username is D Allen III.

Mr Allen??? Wow if only my kids showed me that much respect.

Is this to suggest it takes less skill to drive a Pro boat?

Less skill to drive a Pro boat? Not what I wrote. Read again. Yes a one design class would put more on skill. You have been around a long time from what I see in your postings and profile. You must know that boat design and prop design and motor design in Pro classes go a long way - Stock too. At Ocoee I out ran some of the best drivers in the USA in a couple of heats of CSH and OSY. Was this due to a sudden increase of driving skill? I think not. I had a new boat for CSH built and gained 4 MPH. I would like to say it was my driving skill; however, the speed most likely comes from the work of Cronk than my driving. I also have a few props that vary greatly in speed, punch and as much as I would like to say it is my wonderful driving I can't. So yes I do believe that Pro results are based more on hull and motor than driver skill. You could put the best Pro driver in the biggest pig of a boat out there and he won't keep up with the state of the art Pro rig with a less skilled driver.

[Lights]

Lights. This is Donny's Dad. He has a different sign on.

Don't worry about the 3 boat comment, just giving you a hard time. I hate 3 boat races also.

Sorry Mr. Allen, I just noticed that Donny's username is D Allen III.

[PopPop]

Membership

This site, Hydroracer.net, is a great forum for these ideas and debates. I'd like to see The "Hydroracer.net Member" logo at the bottom of all your posts. $50 is only $1.00 per week. I am sure most of you lose that in loose change left in the car or on the bar.
Join and put your $ where your mouth is.

[raceright]

Not sure if I have ask this question before but I am bit confused on the topic of new motors here in the states when it appears in Europe that they run several off the shelf stock long shaft outboard motors in a number of different classes All six of these photos were taken last month at race in Europe, all these motors seem to be stock long shaft motors straight from the local dealer

My point is what the hell is our problem here in the states ? is this an EPA issue or something here in the US ? Why are we not running these motors ? If they are legal motors for lake recreation in the US why not racing ? I'm still lost on this whole SideWinder Motor project seems all we need is a universal mid section and gear case, why are we reinventing the wheel when Mercury, Jon Rude and Yamaha did this 45 / 50 years ago ?

Your site is getting of track a little seems to me they race (told ya last year)
this equiptment because they can and they can buy equiptment from local dealers can't stop progress only can get in the way,wake up and smell the coffee

Pat

[HRTV]

Eddie, For someone who has been pushing for new motors in Stock Outboard for years now, it sure sounds like you are a little stuck in the past when it comes to your Hot Rod. Also, why do we need a new J motor, you keep telling us that the Mercury is readily available for that class. As far as A, I agree that we will need a motor soon, but the class seems to be doing pretty good for now, that is why Sidewinder is producing their 15 ci motor first, then tackling the A project.

Dan, Thanks for getting us started on the long winter debate season, I for one have been missing it. Like Dad said though, we will have production motors for all of our classes within a few years, that is probably the biggest reason that these other options are not being cultivated.

Hey Ryan, you can always count on me seriously though I still don't have an answer to my original post which is what is the reason for not putting a stock 2 stroke power head onto a universal mid section regardless of the manufacturer just pick one.

[raceright]

Glad you think so. As I said, I'm just a dumb attorney; don't know anything about 2cycle outboards, 'specially ones with rotary valves.

Said 'nuff already. Ed.

Rotary valves can't let that slip by, if things keep going the way they are Rotary valves will be history and multy reeds will be king (ya might have to get one some day Ed about 5 to ten Stock Drivers have every year over the last 4 or so years. Come on down to Raleigh and we will get you a ride in one

Pat
Top Hydro Because in the end there can only be one
(don't tell me there to fast your a racer)

[ryan_4z]

I totally agree: a few minor changes to the Hot Rod and the engine could have been back in production. The effort should have been put towards building an engine for the A and J classes which do not exist and for which there is a market. Rather than doing this, however, it appears a massive effort to build a totally new engine was undertaken which, as has become apparent, is now bogged down in development.

We should be looking at totally stock engines. The problem, of course, is that the weight of these engines will obsolete all of our existing stuff. Maybe we need to look at adding one of these sit-down v-bottom runabout classes (small size) in Stock Outboard and see if it takes off.

Good luck to the new SO Chairman and SORC. I get the bird's eye view from Nov. 1 forward. Eddie.

Eddie, For someone who has been pushing for new motors in Stock Outboard for years now, it sure sounds like you are a little stuck in the past when it comes to your Hot Rod. Also, why do we need a new J motor, you keep telling us that the Mercury is readily available for that class. As far as A, I agree that we will need a motor soon, but the class seems to be doing pretty good for now, that is why Sidewinder is producing their 15 ci motor first, then tackling the A project.

Dan, Thanks for getting us started on the long winter debate season, I for one have been missing it. Like Dad said though, we will have production motors for all of our classes within a few years, that is probably the biggest reason that these other options are not being cultivated.

[14-H]

But it was an endeavor undertaken instead of yet another band-aid approach or more hand-wringing. ***meet kettle - kettle, meet pot.

Glad you think so. As I said, I'm just a dumb attorney; don't know anything about 2cycle outboards, 'specially ones with rotary valves.

Said 'nuff already. Ed.

[14-H]

Ed, could you please let me in on this "insider" information ? ( Who said what , and in what publication ? ) .........I get ***

Jeff: I think it was "Boating". Let me see if I can locate the article and, if so, I'll print it here. Ed.