J Testing at Zanesville?

[pruett56m]

fff

if not the paper bags, then give them 2 props to test with, but at the end of the testing have them returned. come race time put the numbers in a hat and draw numbers...matching it with the numbered props

[werners racing]

j props

We got there wednesday mourning registered and tested our own j prop. Went to the drivers meeting on thursday night and was told that jsh have been testing j props wednesday and thursday. We got our prop at 7:30 friday mourning and we raced at 8:00 Not much testing for us. The j drivers who got the props early raced with them and yes they did get turned in for jsr. Doesnt matter were only kids. Mike werner sr

[Big Don]

I agree...but some out there must think it's happening.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Kinda' like pregiadous?

Seems like this crap starts with someone over 21 , well chronologically speaking.
RichardKCMo QUOTE=14-H;82820]I don't know where this stuff comes from. Cherry-picking props? How can there be any cherry-picking if you have to give them back after testing and then get a random one for JHydro, give that one back and get a random one for JRun?[/QUOTE]

[MGallagher]

Along the same lines of Bill Boyes, I believe the driver should get one prop before the race and thats it. If it doesn't plane off in the mandatory J testing(should be a rule for all races) then the driver gets one until he/she planes off.

As to Don's quote about the .3 mph difference, an the contrary I've seen a 1.5 mph difference recently in just the 2 props that were handed to the driver at the race.

[Matt Dagostino]

J Props....................

Having been there done that with 2 kids and watching this issue all week at Zanesville my only thought was that after the elimination heats(that's right elimination heats!!!) the props should have been turned in and re-drawn for the final 2 heats. The fact that the kids were allowed to use the props to test during the week was a non issue and actually a kind accomadation by the J committee but to allow the kids to hold the prop through testing, elims and both final heats was a little disturbing for a race with such importance. The NAC'S afford both bonus points and HOC consideration and with such a large turnout perhaps could have been handled differently(easy for me to say now that my two have moved on).

For what it's worth my experience with the J props over the years is that as good as Dewald is the props are not identical............Heck, what two props in any class are!!! In J class at 40mph even 3 tenths of a mph at the end of a 1500 plus foot straightaway means something and by switching up the props it keeps everybody on a more level playing field.

I know it is a pain for a J committee person to be chasing down props all week etc etc but what's the alternative.

Ex J dad

[srunne]

Thank you Mike for holding up the Mod Nationals so 16E could go out and test. We really appreciate it. When I inquired about why the J drivers got to test several different props throughout the day, I was told "well you should have been here". So with that I hope something will be resolved by the Stock Nationals.

P.S. We really enjoyed the Mod Nationals. We had never been to just a Mod Nationals before. I thought it was first class. It was a great event to watch.

Sheri Runne (16E's mom)

[PopPop]

0.3 Mph

FYI ..... At approx. 40 mph, 0.3 mph gives an advantage of 10 feet (1 boat length) in a 1500 ft straightaway.

[Skoontz]

We had a similar experience with J props at the sectionals on Oroville. I've spoken to Bill about it, and I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but, we got there late, were not able to test, and, yes we found copper metallic nail polish in various spots on several props. At that time, we simply went into the club trailer, went to the prop case, and took what was left. The first race I and Kt were beyond frustrated, as she could not plane off. We changed props and rocked the boat down, so yep, there is a difference.

Now, what Bill told me was supposed to be done, was done at Chowchilla. Props went i nto brown paper bags with the prop keeper present, out of site of drivers, and drivers got to choose thier prop under the bag. If it did not work, we could exchange them.

I know the test prop Dewald made us is different in color that the APBA props so it can be distingushed from those...And, Craig even told me that if we could not plane, as all are slightly different, to send it back and he would give us a new one. So, the maker says they different...
If bags are used, probelem solved

[wdlong1226]

ed

believe me some of these kids are smarter than you think

[Jim Sweeney]

First Let Me Say That We Had A Great Time At Zanesville. Other Than The Usual Wind Delays, Wrecks, And Having To Move The Course I Think Things Went Very Smoothly. Having Said That, I Think J Was Mishandled. We Were Never Informed That The J Props Could Be Tested During The Week. My Son Also Picked Out His Prop The Morning Of The Race, Only To Find That Most Of The Remaining Props Had Damage Or Bends In The Leading Edge. The Two Props We Tested Were .8 Mph Different. I Understand That Being In Charge Of The J Props Is A Hastle, But They Should Have Been Redistributed After The Two Days Of Testing. And For The Record,we Have Found A Difference Of Over A Mile Per Hour In Some Of The Props. Jim Sweeney

[Skoontz]

Jim:

As I understand the J rules, and the intent, I beleive, was to have an equal oportunity for all to win and compete. That is why the hidden prop pick. That is why luck of the draw works for all, so long as it is used as intended. At the sectionals in Oroville, after seeing my daughter do very well her first 4 races, she came off the course in tears, nearly wanting to quit the program. After her mom and I and many drivers and boat owners spoke to her, she was better....Later, I got angry, then went back to my senses. At Chowchilla, Kt did not want to run J because of her bad experieinces and I told her the other drivers in the class needed her and it was not fair so we sent her out....Only to come in by end of tow rope all day Saturday! Sunday, whole new game. Steve Wilde, Ron Hill, Dale Bishop and a multitude of others helped me run down the issues, so she won Sunday and took 3rd in AXS.

It is beyond frustrating dealing with the reversed torque curves of restrictor plates, and boats that won't plane, and boats that run slow, but I'll end with this....It showed my daughter it is not just about winning. It is about developing the tenocity (sp) in your gut to stick with something until you reach the goal. And, after all, that is what life is about. Is she learned one thing, I hope and pray she learned that, win, loose or draw on the race course.....

[MGallagher]

Given whats been said, I guess there WAS a problem with how the props were handled at Zanesville. I was a little confused by Ed's post when he stated they returned them and then got a new random one each day before each class.

I am glad this post was something that can be used to fix what seems to be a problem at some races around the country. Hopefully this will help the J committee decide on how to handle the props at the Nationals and all races throughout the country in the future.

[Skoontz]

More J stuff, but could be also other class stuff.

Since we (KT and I) are very new to this APBA stuff, and the politics there in, it seems that anyone who may have a profiting interest, say a company selling parts or accessories for example should be excluded from voting on any changes to the rules and requirements they might be able to profit from. It is a conflicting interest. I don't see where there has been any attempt to make such a provision in the past.

Back in the day, Mr. K had all kinds of people sitting on numerous boards seeing to it his engines got advantages over others for example...Case in point, the Champion, though very unreliable in most venues (so said my dad who ran against them) when they wereoutrunning the Mercs, Mr. K twisted arms to allow his exhaust tuners allowed on his engine, but not on the
Champion.

Afte reading the goals of the stock engine committee, there are several things written that to me appear to be a conflicting interest, which, is why I thought I would throw it out there....Anyhow, along with gray areas in the engine spec rulebook, it seems there is a gray area in the voting rules, don't get your knickers in a twist over what I posted, just correct me if I'm wrong here, or add if I got a point...........

[sam]

Case in point, the Champion, though very unreliable in most venues (so said my dad who ran against them) when they were outrunning the Mercs, Mr. K twisted arms to allow his exhaust tuners allowed on his engine, but not on the Champion.

Not true.

What happened in 1959, in the case of the Champion vs. the Merc conversion exhaust, the rules had been clear for years and were not changed, bent or ignored. The long standing rules required that the manufacturer apply to have any special parts approved. The Champion factory was closed and did not exist, there was no one to legally apply to APBA for a change.

In the present situation, I think you should name names or your arguement will not gain any momentum, nor will you learn the truth and gain a better understanding of the situation. You are making it sound like the Stock Committee is packed with manufacturers who are intentionally charging an inflated price for neccessary parts and living large off of poor kids who want to start racing.