APBA D-stock Rule Change

[14-H]

Ed, *** Neil says he thought there were TWO legal gear ratios. ***
Ed, Heal thyself!

Jeff: He actually has never said that. Go back and re-read what has been written.

AS for the buisiness about skirting inspection: those to whom I was referring know what I mean. That is all that is important.

Dave: Mr. VS has a personal beef with me over the PRO radio thing because I disagreed with him. Relevancy is unimportant to him. Ed.

[jeff55v]

Making "the call"

As some of you know, I was totaly blown away when it was brought to my attention as an APBA inspector that some people were running underdrive gears.

Dave, you posted at nearly the same time I did. It sounds like you were just doing your job as an inspector. How can anybody hold that against you?
You can inspect my setup anytime.


Here, you can see my pit crew conspiring to find a loophole to cheat:

[YankeeRacing]

Question: What actual authority does the Parity Committee have to make changes? If they have some authority, why can't they just allow the gears for the nationals?

In addition, if I were involved, and I was trying to prove a point, I would scour that tech manual from beginning to end. I would then post right here on Hydroracer every clerical or typographical error I could find. Certainly this can't be the only one? There must be at least one decimal point out of place, or comma inserted that might change a meaning? Then I would insist that the rules be followed as written. Step on some more toes of more innocent racers, and then you would see how not allowing the Too hot sue gears to be run is making us look silly as a sport, even if it is following the rules.
As someone said, this is a hobby sport and does not pay our bills. Not only does the postman care if we win a nationals. sometimes our closest friends and family don't either.
Connie
PS. I have never heard how many motors actually could possibly be running the "illegal" gears at the nationals. Is this a moot point to begin with?

[mercguy]

Actually Darren, you bring up a valid point. After the national meeting, when the Tohatsu was approved, it never occured to me to check the tech manual to see if everything was done correctly. After being at the national meetings, as well as being a part of the parity committee, where this issue was discussed ( the gear ratio) it never crossed my mind to check manual for clerical errors. As some of you know, I was totaly blown away when it was brought to my attention as an APBA inspector that some people were running underdrive gears. That being said, the crap I have taken for making a single phone call about gears has been so bad that I have informed APBA to take me off the approved inspector list. Personal threats and other forms of harrasment, which have taken place since a single phone call was made concerning gear ratios, have played a huge part in this decsion. That being said, things will work out in the end. Dave

that is a reasonable answer Dave, thanks. With that being said, the rule book is still the rule book and should be followed. I still cannot believe with all the scrutiny the Tohatsu has been put through, it has taken this long for the "error" to be found and ironic SO CLOSE to the Nat's....there is no way there is enough time to switch a racers setup to 17/17's in time.....................unless Ed or the SORC is gonna pay for the gear ratio change and a couple props from Dewald............

the use of the 16/17 gears is/would not be the only reason the Tohatsu would have a chance to win the Nat's.

PS: what is a racer that just started 1 1/2yrs ago decided to go the Tohatsu route and also run 16/17 gears, but was not around when the "so-called" rule that alows only 17/17 gears to be ran and went by what the rule book said..............is he/she wrong????????? If we cannot trust what is written in the rule book, then what is its purpose? Even if it is a clerical error, although being a HUGE one and expensive one?

[daveracerdsh]

Pit crew

Those are not little kids....they are the new inspection crew I have hired to work for me at Nationals. Anybody caught cheating will get their ankles bit. You have been warned!

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

What He Said!!!!

And that's all i'm gonna' say about that.

Jeff, Thank you for posting the picture of your pit crew, maybe everybody will look at the picture for a minute, realize what's really important in life and then calmly resolve the gear ratio problem. The people directly involved in this should be sending e-mails and private messages, and the rest of us need to leave it alone. The negative posts cause us to form opinions about people that we don't even know!

[14-H]

Timeline

January 2005: Bass Tohatsu is approved as a legal D Engine in SO.

February 2005: Bass Machines is advised by the Chairman of the D Class Technical Committee that only 1:1 Gears were approved by the SORC (twice).


ONE YEAR AND FOUR MONTHS THEN PASSES.


June of 2006: 2006 Technical Manual is printed on APBA website and includes for the first time, Tohatsu Specs.

May 2007: SO Chairman advised that some participants are now running one-tooth-under gears in D Class and asked to determine if they are legal.

June of 2007: Error in Tech Manual is discovered.

June of 2007: All Tohatsu Drivers in the Western Division competing at the Divisionals are advised that one-tooth-under gears are not legal and will not be allowed at the National Championships at Moses Lake but allowed to use them in the Western Divisionals.

July 2007: Article appears in Propeller Magazine correcting error in Tech Manual (printed edition actually released the third week in June).

FYI. EWH.

[14-H]

***

Here, you can see my pit crew conspiring to find a loophole to cheat:

Jeff: I see that they are definitely working in the area of the gear box. LOL. Ed.

[nbass]

Look at the Written Word!

Mr. Hearn, you are missing one important date. After the February 2005 National Meeting approval I was receiving direction from Mark Wheeler that conflicted with our representative at the meeting, Howard Shaw. I asked you via email (shown on this thread by sponsonhead) for written information about what was approved. You forwarded my request to Mike Ross. Mike Ross directed me to the minutes from the National Meeting. There is no such direction in the 2005 National Meeting minutes that state the Tohatsu must run 1:1 gears. Seems to me that what is in writing is the legal word. You keep telling everyone that there was a misprint. I now believe you and Mark thought it should be 1:1 but that is not what was communicated by the 2005 National Meeting minutes nor by the rule book.

Folks, let's move on. Mr. Hearn will not concede that his ruling is wrong and is unreasonable no mater what the evidence.

I applaud Mr. Hearn for helping get the Tohatsu project on to the water. For that I give him great credit. Our problems have revolved around those that want nothing but the 44xs and a dictatorial parity committee of three members.

If you want the Tohatsu, the Sidewinder, or any other new machine, it has to be able to win, set records, and be the engine of choice early in production, not ten years later. Second place products do not sell. Products that do not sell eventually fall off the market. Lastly, I am glad Dave Scott is doing well. The Tohatsu needs the 44xs and the 44xs needs the Tohatsu if the D-stock is to be a viable class. However, arbitrary parity rules and latent rules about gear ratios will destroy both.
Neil Bass

[14-H]

Mr. Hearn, ***There is no such direction in the 2005 National Meeting minutes that state the Tohatsu must run 1:1 gears. ***Neil Bass

You're right about that. They say "only 1:1 gears are legal"; no specification is made that this applies only to the Tohatsu.

Fireworks are waiting. Ed.

[nbass]

Hu?

Fireworks are waiting. Ed.

What is this supposed to mean? Did you miss the 4th?

Neil Bass

[nbass]

Read the minutes one more time

From the minutes published in this thread

i. D Classes

1. Approval of Bass/Tohatsu Engine

MOTION TO APPROVE NEW BASS/TAHATSU MOTOR WITH AN ADVISERY COMMITTEE TO MONITER THE PROGRESS AND PAIRITY PASSED

MOTION TO HAVE NEIL BASS SEND JERRY WEINETTE A NEW BASS/TAHATSU MOTOR FOR DYNO TESTING SO THE SO COMMISION HAS DATA TO REVIEW. TESTING TO BE DONE WITHIN 6 MONTHS. SHIPPING COSTS TO BE INCURED BY SORC
PASSED.

Chairman appointed a committee to review all data on this new D motor.

Mark Wheeler
John Runne
Brian Palmquist
Neil Bass


2. Approval of the Thunderbolt 44 on a Bass or 55H lower unit

MOTION TO ACCEPT THE SUPER THUNDER BOLT D MOTOR WITH THE ADDITION OF THE 44XS TOWER HOUSING AND GEAR CASE. ALSO ALL GEAR RATIOS WILL BE 1 to 1 PASSED

End of minutes quote

Dear Ed Hearn

I did read the 1:1 statement under par 2 to apply to par 2 approval of the Thunderbolt 44. That would mean that 1:1 gears are required for either the Bass lower unit or the 55H lower unit when run with a Thunderbolt 44.

I thought it quite clear that par 1, Approval of the Tohatsu, stood on its own. There is no reason to assume that rules for the Thunderbolt should apply to the Tohatsu. Obviously the rules committee also assumed from reading the minutes that the two engines were dealt with separately as did most others.

Respectfully,
Neil Bass

[jeff55v]

Joe, You guessed right. When I ordered my motor I specified 1:1 gear ratio. My reasoning was that I have a few good DSH props, so I ought to be in the ball park. So, yes. I run 1:1 ratio. And thanks for the kind words about how it runs. That means a lot coming from you.

Mr Hemp, I think you may have misunderstood or were told wrong. I actually own 3 decent DSH props and one DMH prop. Not just one prop. The fact of the matter is that I have only TRIED ONE prop on my Tohatsu so far. Which is in effect, the same as owning only one I guess. So in a way, I guess you were right all along.

Mr Hearn, What about General rule 8. Subrule 5.
If one follows the "intent" of this rule, I don't see why Bass Machines can be to blame for any of this gear ratio goof up nonsense. The Owner/Driver ought to know the rules and is responsible for following them. Bass Machines does not have a monopoly on the rulebooks.
Just my two cents. (what am I up to now, must be about 24 cents?)

Dave, I'll have to send you the Use and Care instructions to go with that inspection crew you hired out from my pits. It's quite long.



Sam C. I like your train of thought there..."DARN, just missed the Propeller deadline!" ...good one!

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Hey Crash,!!!

Can't waii io see you ln Centralia Il., Have to make it at least 2 too hot sus,against those 40 in mercs
RichardKCMo

[daveracerdsh]

Inspection crew.

Well....I have dealt with little people before. I figured a few of them scampering around the inspection area measuring lower units and looking up exhaust ports is a good thing. However, if I have to change any diapers or deal with hissy fits......I will leave that to Mr Hearn as I think he just had a little one. I hope they don't expect SOA to provide them with popsicles or anything. Jeesh. The nerve. See you at Moses Lake!