APBA D-stock Rule Change

[CSR4C]

I was talking to a Tohatsu owner who said he was having a hard time finding props big enough for the motor. If that is the case why would any one want to run 16:17 gears?
Now that there is a Tohatsu in our camp, I can't wait to go testing.
Darrell

[S.wolf]

hydroracr.net

Sometimes I wonder if Hydroracer.net is good or bad for our sport.

[G Stillwill]

Depends on who is posting and about what .....there you go Ed I posted under this subject

[ricochet112]

Section 12.7. RULE CHANGE PROCEDURE. For those categories that have not adopted other procedures for rule changes, the following shall be
applicable:
12.7.1. Category Safety Rules shall be determined by the appropriate racing commission without going to ballot of the category members. A
safety rule is defined as a rule to reduce the likelihood of injury or danger, as its primary purpose. All safety rules shall be reviewed by the
Safety Committee and become effective 30 days after passage by the Commission with publication in the Propeller Magazine or posted
on the APBA website. In an emergency, after approval of the Safety Committee, a safety rule can become effective immediately, provided
reasonable notice is given to all participants.
12.7.2. All racing members of record as of October 31, and those of record from October 31 until two weeks before the ballot mailing date, shall
be eligible to vote on category racing and technical rule changes. A technical rule is defined as a rule that pertains to a mechanical art or
science. The rule change ballot will contain one or several of the following:
a) Any technical rule change proposed by at least 30% of all the members registered in the class concerned, but in no event fewer than
four members of any class.
b) Any category rule change proposed by at least 30% of all members possessing registered racing equipment in the category
concerned.
c) Any category racing rule or category technical rule change proposed by a majority vote of the racing commission concerned.
12.7.3. All rule change proposals as described in paragraphs (a) and (b) shall be submitted in writing to the National Headquarters not later than
December 1. On or before December 15 of each year, the National Headquarters shall mail the proposed rule changes to the appropriate
Racing Commission to be placed on the ballot. In the event the rule change proposed by the membership received a majority vote, it shall
take precedence over any category rule in conflict.
12.7.4. The Chairmen of the Racing Commissions shall mail to National Headquarters before March 1 all proposed rule changes approved by
their Commissions.
12.7.5. National Headquarters shall mail to each member, in accordance with the category rules, on or before March 15, an offi cial ballot
containing said proposed rule changes, and the ballots to be counted must be returned in the return envelope postmarked no later than
March 29. The results will be tabulated no later than April 5 and shall be published in the next issue of Propeller.
12.7.6. Any official ballot, to be counted, must be postmarked before midnight of the 14th day following the mailing of the ballot. Ballots will
be checked and votes counted as follows: Racing Rules – the vote of all racing members in accordance with the Bylaws; Technical Rule
Changes and rule changes involving a particular class – only the votes of those members registered in the class concerned. A majority of2007 APBA Reference Book • BYLAWS • 8
those voting on any proposition shall be necessary to enact a proposed change.
12.7.7. Except when rules are changed or modifi ed by the Board of Directors, rules may not be changed at any time or in any manner other than
as specifi ed above, except when obvious error is shown in the adoption or amendment of any rule or when, in the opinion of any Racing
Commission, if applicable, the good of the sport is at stake. In such events, the Racing Commission, if applicable, with approval of the
Board of Directors, may change the rules in accordance with the category rules. In the event that the rule change is fi nalized prior to May
1, the rule change shall take effect 30 days after being finalized. Such rule changes shall be published in the next issue of Propeller and
on the APBA website. In the event that the rule is not fi nalized prior to May 1, the rule change shall take effect the November 1 following
the approved change.
12.7.8. A rule with a specified freeze duration of up to three years may not be changed during its specified freeze period without the approval of
the Board of Directors.
12.7.9. With the exception of any rule changed or modifi ed by the Board of Directors after having given the appropriate members due notice, or
any rule change pursuant to Bylaw 12.7, any rule changes shall take effect the November 1 following the approved change.




Read 12.7.7 thru 12.7.9

Does SO have a different set of Rule Change Procedures?

Rule change should take effect Nov 1st, it's printed in the technical manual, so it's the rule now,any changes made/finalized after May 1st go into effect Nov 1.

Did I read or interpret anything incorrectly?

Or will this sentence override all; except when obvious error is shown in the adoption or amendment of any rule or when, in the opinion of any Racing
Commission

[sam]

But, in this case we are not talking about a rule change, we are talking about a typographical error in the Tech Manual. The actual rule always has been 1:1, as confirmed by the commission minutes

[sam]

Do I need to read all National meeting minutes before I inspect now?

If a rule is less than 2 years old do I need to find any and all correspondence between SORC's and check to see what the "intent" was?

An actual typo would be a digit off, say 14:16 instead of 15:16. This was more than that, it was a rule. A complete printed rule in 2 consecutive tech manuals.

A typographical error can be a single character as you point out, or a whole paragraph or chapter when the work is larger.

Your only responsibility as an inspector is to read Propeller and be aware of any changes printed therein. Before the July 07 issue, the rule of record was the tech manual's original text and you were correct in any previous interpetation.

Whatever the cir***stances of this coming to light are ... it sure does smell of backroom politics whether it is or isn't. SO members please remember that Mr. Hearn is not alone on the SO Comission and may simply be the messenger doing his appointed duty and not the party who started this ... had I been the SO Chairman ... the correction might have just happened to come out a bit later in the season, gosh, darn I missed the deadline for Propeller ...

[bill van steenwyk]

Oh what a difference a year makes

Does anyone else but me not see the complete irony in this whole situation, and "Eddie the Chairman's" take on it and willingness to try to solve what would appear to be a REAL problem.

Let me refresh your memories about Eddies reaction to the percieved grievance by J. Michael Kelly on being denied a record because of a screwup in the paperwork that Eddie finally took responsibility for after catching a load on this website about his handling or mishandling, whichever you prefer, of the situation. He finally owned up to his mistake and even started a collection with 250.00 of his own money to finance an appeal of the PRO Commission ruling that was made because they WERE UPHOLDING THEIR RULE BOOK, on how the paperwork was supposed to be handled on record certifications. This commission ruling denied J. Michael his record based on the rules, but was overturned on appeal after Eddie took the lead in making another category out to be bad guys for upholding their rules.

Now we have another problem that will seemingly affect, based on the comments on this site, several instead of just one person, not only at a chance for a National Championship but financially as well, and he takes the hard line, " a rule is a rule, and we don't deviate", even though in my reading of the various posts, any fair minded person would have a VERY difficult time determining exactly who is responsible for the screw up and how it occured, or even if there was one. Also the category involved is his own.

Come on Eddie, what's fair for one is fair for all. Have a little compassion for your Tohatsu owners, even though they have been on your case a little bit lately.

Oh wait, that couldn't be the reason for your inaction, could it?

[mercguy]

[QUOTE=gpauto;82306]ok daren, I'll go away, just from the outside looking in it seemed bad- --- ooooohh you guys DRINK [QUOTE=gpauto;82299]

it has been heated before.........but, for your ease, I will remove my statement and go back into the darkness once again..........

[kws]

Daren the thing about a public forum is that it is public as such every comment everyone of us posts here does represent boat racing to the public you can not make a public comment and expect anyone to treat it as a private comment that is what PM's and email are for. of course that might not matter if your goal is for everyone to see Darren bash Ed again. I personaly would rather see a post where Darren makes a good point.

[daveracerdsh]

Tohatsu

Mr van steenwyk: I find your last post somewhat irrational. What on earth does Ed's admitting he made a mistake in regards to Mike Kelly have to do with the current situation? Nothing. Like it has been clearly stated, whole situation was due to a CLERICAL error. What is he supposed to do...ignore the rules? I mean, come on. I was at the Atlanta meeting, and like I said in an earlier post, I clearly remember one to one gears being the only legal gears for the new D stock Tohatsu. Ed is simply clearing matters up before nationals. Would it be better to wait until the chief inspector throws out a driver? Should we deal with it then? I can understand the frustration of Tohatsu owners if they bought underdrive gears, but at least now they have time to get things in order for nationals. Dave

[mercguy]

Mr van steenwyk: I find your last post somewhat irrational. What on earth does Ed's admitting he made a mistake in regards to Mike Kelly have to do with the current situation? Nothing. Like it has been clearly stated, whole situation was due to a CLERICAL error. What is he supposed to do...ignore the rules? I mean, come on. I was at the Atlanta meeting, and like I said in an earlier post, I clearly remember one to one gears being the only legal gears for the new D stock Tohatsu. Ed is simply clearing matters up before nationals. Would it be better to wait until the chief inspector throws out a driver? Should we deal with it then? I can understand the frustration of Tohatsu owners if they bought underdrive gears, but at least now they have time to get things in order for nationals. Dave

Dave, if you have known all along that 16/17 gears were not legal, then why have you not made it a point to inform the guys (and maybe the other inspectors in Reg10) running them in Reg10 a LONG time ago, that they were not legal?? Instead it was brought up at the last minute? Do you think one honestly has enough time (and $$$$$$$) to buy another set of gears, all new props and test and be were they were before they switched over? Just some basic questions I am asking of ya......

BTW, I "thought" you were buying a Tohatsu also???

[mercguy]

Daren the thing about a public forum is that it is public as such every comment everyone of us posts here does represent boat racing to the public you can not make a public comment and expect anyone to treat it as a private comment that is what PM's and email are for. of course that might not matter if your goal is for everyone to see Darren bash Ed again. I personaly would rather see a post where Darren makes a good point.

well, when you have a personal and financial interest in the topic, as the other Tohatso owners, let me know...........

[jeff55v]

Conspiracy

Mr. Bass: Only the 1:1 gears are legal in this class; your company very well knows this and has known it since the motor was approved by the SORC. It is quite disappointing that your company chose to take advantage of an error in the tech manual made by the SORC's volunteer staff. It is also quite upsetting that there has been a concerted effort in your Region to allow drivers to run illegal gears and set ups and to skirt inspections at APBA events in order to do this.

To all of you who have run illegal equipment in this class knowing you have been doing it or have been cooperating in the effort to allow this equipment to run illegally at APBA events and who yet criticize me: Heal thyself!

Ed, I usually assume most people know more than me. Usually, that's a correct assumption. It seems you must know about some goings-on out on the west coast that I'm not aware of. I'm suprised nobody has spoke up about this yet. Skirting inspections? Are you saying that race inspectors are knowingly allowing illegal equipment to pass inspection? I'd like to learn more about this. Let's hear some names. And I'd like to hear how you can draw the connection between an engine manufacturer and the actions of racers and inspectors. You seem to be blaming Bass Machines for this "concerted effort" to break rules. Is Bass Machines somehow directing racers and inspectors to knowingly break the rules? This is quite a conspiracy.

Ed, also, I gotta stand up for Bass machines here. Neil says he thought there were TWO legal gear ratios. By golly... I believe him! Perhaps Neil is incorrect about the matter. But I sure as heck do not think he's knowingly taking advantage of an error! I have had many conversations with Sid and Neil Bass. I've gotten to know them well over these past few years. They are two fine and honest gentlemen. Perhaps they are mistaken about this issue, but they are certainly not cheaters, as you imply.
Ed, Heal thyself!

[daveracerdsh]

Tohatsu

Actually Darren, you bring up a valid point. After the national meeting, when the Tohatsu was approved, it never occured to me to check the tech manual to see if everything was done correctly. After being at the national meetings, as well as being a part of the parity committee, where this issue was discussed ( the gear ratio) it never crossed my mind to check manual for clerical errors. As some of you know, I was totaly blown away when it was brought to my attention as an APBA inspector that some people were running underdrive gears. That being said, the crap I have taken for making a single phone call about gears has been so bad that I have informed APBA to take me off the approved inspector list. Personal threats and other forms of harrasment, which have taken place since a single phone call was made concerning gear ratios, have played a huge part in this decsion. That being said, things will work out in the end. Dave

[crankbearing]

Merc Motors Sold

Right out of the SO Technical Manual on page 32 for the Tohatsu D Stock, which I just got from the APBA web site:

Pinion Gear 16 or 17 tooth,

Propeller shaft Gear 17 tooth.

So, for Mr. Hearn to change this on his own is not legal. And, it is not the right thing to do. The new Tohatsu D Stock motor has put new life into D Stock. Mr. Hearn is not considering the Mission Statement of the Stock Outboard Steering Committee to encourage new motors.

Mr. Hearn, "What's up with that?"

Ten (10) new Bass/Tohatsu D motors sold, with six (6) active orders. That's
most likely more than the current active D Stock drivers with 44XS Mercurys.

Dean,

There is no interest in the Tohatsu in Canada. I have had no one call me since we annouced I would help sell them up here. But as for the Merc, I have sold 14 motors and two more on the way to Zanesville. Finally at last years nats we had 22 Mercs at the race and no Tohatsu's. I have interest in more but am too busy to build them right now.

As for the gear issues - The mercs would be 13:14 not 14:15 and that easy enough to say when there are none available.

The bottom line of all this is whether right or wrong, 1:1 have always been the legal gearset in DSH and should always be that being said I do not think it right that people are forced to make a change this close to the nats.

Believe me - I wish I was an inspector at the nats, BECAUSE there are lot more places to easily cheat with that motor then the gear ratio. I have a powerhead here that I have been examining for about 3 months and it is brutal the little things that could be done. I am not saying that anyone is cheating I am only following the line of some of the posts before this.

Regards,