APBA D-stock Rule Change

[mike ross]

Neil this is why you should have been on the parity commitee. When you chose not to be on it I was shocked. I guess we should now execute Mr Hagerl for making a mistake and not correcting what the SORC approved. This is a new way to skirt the rules we pass. Pay the person who is in charge of publishing the new rules we pass so we can have an advantage. Maybe we could have the Hot Rod cc's get misprinted back to the old way so we can go get them thinner gaskets. I think evryone new what the rule was but is taking advantage of a misprint. Mike

[sponsonhead]

Nice Response, Mike....

I think it's obvious that this whole thing was ambiguous as anything, based on the email threads and discussions.

I too wish Neil had stayed on the Parity Committee, but he chose not to. Why not replace him with another Tohatsu owner? There's a few of them out there.

Neil states he's willing to work with you, the new engines committee, and the other new engine providers in his response, and you come back with with that kind of sarcasm?

Just seems like more of the problem rather than the solution to me. Surprising...and disappointing.

R-19

[14-H]

Rules

We are not going to start changing the way we correct mistakes in the Tech Manual or Rule Book now. The Bass Engine was approved by the SORC with only 1:1 gears. When the error was discovered, I placed an article in the Propeller Magazine. All are now on notice as to what the rules are for this lower unit. There is no need to have an SORC meeting now since there is nothing for the SORC to do and nothing the SORC could do under the By Laws at this point.

You guys can keep discussing this as long as you like, right through the finals at Moses Lake. But the only gears that will pass inspection are 1:1. Ed Hearn, SO Chairman.

[Big Don]

Are you implying that every person who races stays on top of every issue? For those that don’t we have rules and manuals to assist them. When they are wrong weeks before our biggest race and we have not caught the misprint for two years….we might just have to eat crow. If we had caught it sooner and we had let everyone know, case closed but that is not the case.

Oh and your suggestion of paying a person off…hopefully we have appointed people with some integrity.

Addition...Ed when did that go in the propeller? Maybe I missed it?

[14-H]

I think it's obvious that this whole thing was ambiguous as anything, based on the email threads and discussions.

***

R-19

Patrick: I read those emails again and find nothing confusing. Mr. Wheeler, the SO D Class Tech Chairman at the time, advised Mr. Bass more than once that only 1:1 gears were legal over two years ago. EWH.

[kws]

Mike that might be true if those people were at the national meeting but many people can not attend. we have to read the rule book when it is sent to us and go by that why should someone be penilized for following the the printed tech manual? I can only assume that the intent of a rule is what is printed. If what is printed is not the intent of those that passed the rule, then how is that anyones fault but those that passed the rule? ( this comment is more for the times that rules get passed to address a problem or a perceived problem in a backhanded way instead of directly) The way i see it is if a rule was misprinted and it is not noticed untill mid season then leave it alone untill next year. Now had it been notice before racing started for the year, Fine then send out an addendum(sp?)correcting the missprint. but to address this issue( the typo) less than a month from the nationals can only harm boat racing. in my mind thats what proof reading before something goes to print is for and that responsibility resides with those that passed the rule.( I am not saying it is not a good rule just that it is a bad time to address it!)

[Big Don]

Ed, Went and looked on line found it in this month's propeller.

For those that have not seen it.....

D Stock Class Technical Rule Clarification/Correction: In the D Stock Classes, the SO Technical Manual for 2006 incorrectly lists both 1:1 and one-tooth under gears as being legal for the lower unit for the Bass/Tohatsu Engine. This is not correct. The Bass/Tohatsu engine was submitted by the manufacturer with a proposal for both sets of gears, but only the 1:1 gears were approved by the SORC when the engine was approved. Accordingly, the SO Technical Manual has now been corrected to show that only 1:1 lower unit gears are legal for any engine in these classes. This rule will be enforced at the Stock Nationals in Moses Lake, Washington.

[473M]

There is nothing we can due to change this situation this year.

Ed has stated that it is against the bylaws of APBA to change this at this point in the season. The rule that was written in the minutes is what was submitted to the Board of Directors and that is what they approved.
Please understand the way our system works is all technical changes have to be summated to the Board of directors and they must approve them by May 1st or they will not take affect until the following racing season (Nov. 1st). It may not be the best system but it is the one we have and the one we have to follow.
So to change this now is not a possibility given the current bylaws.
I am sure if you would like to review the APBA Bylaws, they can be obtained from headquarters.

I am taking no side as to which is the right thing to do just that we have rules that we must follow as commissioners and that is what I feel we should do.

The following is from the 2005 minutes’. This was obtained from the APBA office so these are the minutes’ that were approved by the board of directors.

i. D Classes

1. Approval of Bass/Tohatsu Engine

MOTION TO APPROVE NEW BASS/TAHATSU MOTOR WITH AN ADVISERY COMMITTEE TO MONITER THE PROGRESS AND PAIRITY PASSED

MOTION TO HAVE NEIL BASS SEND JERRY WEINETTE A NEW BASS/TAHATSU MOTOR FOR DYNO TESTING SO THE SO COMMISION HAS DATA TO REVIEW. TESTING TO BE DONE WITHIN 6 MONTHS. SHIPPING COSTS TO BE INCURED BY SORC
PASSED.

Chairman appointed a committee to review all data on this new D motor.

Mark Wheeler
John Runne
Brian Palmquist
Neil Bass


2. Approval of the Thunderbolt 44 on a Bass or 55H lower unit

MOTION TO ACCEPT THE SUPER THUNDER BOLT D MOTOR WITH THE ADDITION OF THE 44XS TOWER HOUSING AND GEAR CASE. ALSO ALL GEAR RATIOS WILL BE 1 to 1 PASSED

Sorry guy but I do not see a way around this for this year. You submit a proposal to have the other gear ratio be approved and have it discussed at the national meeting in Detroit next year.
Brian Trolian
Region 6 commissioner

[DeanFHobart]

You are correct John

Mike, The information on page 28 refers to the use of the Bass foot on a Merc 44XS only. On page 34 it refers to the Bass unit on a 55H. On page 32 it clearly states that on the Tohatsu both the 16 or 17 tooth pinion gear are legal. We cannot take things out of context. There is no place in the tech. manual or rule book that states that all D class motors must run 1:1 gear ratios..Regardless of the original intent, we must honor what is in the tech. manual as that is all the owner can go by. In my opinion, considering all the cir***stances, these lower units are absolutely legal.

To John Runne,

You are correct..... The Tech. Manual should take precedence or precedent,
whatever the correct word is!!!

[csh2z]

Mike, The information on page 28 refers to the use of the Bass foot on a Merc 44XS only. On page 34 it refers to the Bass unit on a 55H. On page 32 it clearly states that on the Tohatsu both the 16 or 17 tooth pinion gear are legal. We cannot take things out of context. There is no place in the tech. manual or rule book that states that all D class motors must run 1:1 gear ratios..Regardless of the original intent, we must honor what is in the tech. manual as that is all the owner can go by. In my opinion, considering all the cir***stances, these lower units are absolutely legal.

This information is out of the 2006 Tech. Manual. I have not seen, nor been able to find a 2007 Tech. Manual. Does one exist? Nothing else matters, the intent, the minutes, the e-mails, none of it! The only thing a driver has to go by is the Rule Book and the Tech. Manual. For whatever reason the driver should not be held responsible for errors made by both the manufacturer and the SORC. We must do what is right by the drivers.

[DeanFHobart]

Brian, You're also correct..

Brian,

Thanks for making it clear. Looks like 16:17 and 17:17 are both legal. 16:17 is only 6% under drive.

For next year: Allow the 14:15 for the 44XS Mercury D Stock. 14:15 is 7% under drive.

Let's everyone have a fun and safe Nationals at Moses Lake this year.

Ya'll come..... gas prices are coming down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ryan_4z]

Come on Ed, give me break. You are a lawyer, you know better than any that there is always a way around the rules. You just have to want to find it bad enough. Why don't you show us how good a lawyer you really are. You might as well get on the other side of this issue quick, because, like dad said, nothing matters but what is printed in the Inspection Manual. Even you can't override that. Do the right thing for Stock Outboard, get this cleared up ahead of time. These guys shouldn't be held responsible for someone else's mistake. Show us all you know the difference between right and wrong. Let's not go to the nationals knowing that this is going to be an issue, it will only take away from the fun and racing. Why give these guys one more reason to be pissed at you? Especially considering they may not get thrown out for running the 16:17 gears. If Sled doesn't throw them out, what are you going to do then? You're not a dictator, and I'm not sure that the Commission will back you on this one. You are really going to isolate yourself if you hold strong on this. Remember, as Chairman, it is in your responsibility to do what is best for Stock Outboard. You just have to ask yourself one question--Do I feel lucky? Well, do you, punk. Wait, I mean--What is best for the sport? When you can answer that honestly, then you will know what the right thing to do is.

[sponsonhead]

Hell Freezes Over!

OMG--For once I agree with Ryan!

R-19

[Big Don]

So in my opinion what this really comes down to is, do we feel we are doing what is right for the racers. Is letting them race under a set of rules for 1 to 2 years then telling them 3 weeks before their nationals fair?

Now I know why they block this site at my work. Someone forgot to turn the web site blocker back on in IS this week and they are on vacation.

[sam]

This information is out of the 2006 Tech. Manual. I have not seen, nor been able to find a 2007 Tech. Manual. Does one exist? Nothing else matters, the intent, the minutes, the e-mails, none of it! The only thing a driver has to go by is the Rule Book and the Tech. Manual. For whatever reason the driver should not be held responsible for errors made by both the manufacturer and the SORC. We must do what is right by the drivers.

Something else does matter according to APBA General Rules ... corrections printed in Propeller which is delivered to all members. Since this "correction" is in print in the July issue of Propeller on page 3, as much as I wish it was not, - it is the rule of record as far as appeals etc