Feedback Please

[csh2z]

The Stock Outboard Steering Committee is interested in getting some feedback from the article written by Mike Johnson in the June issue of "Propeller Magazine".

[HRTV]

Here is a link for the article

http://www.apba-racing.com/apps/prop...tock+Outboard+

[ricochet112]

This is what the future of SO needs and should look like, IMHO.

But, so much is riding on an engine that's not available yet.

[D_Allen_III]

Updates from the Factory?

The only question I have relates to the article indirectly and that is, what is the status of the sidewinder project?

It's been awhile since I've seen any updates or posts about which motors are currently being produced and which ones are being used as probationary motors. So much of our plan is invested in these motors, it would be nice to find out if we are on schedule or not. It would be even nicer to get a motor to the west coast and another to the midwest so everyone can get a good look at the motors.

Any updates from the sidewinder factory???

[26V]

article written by Mike Johnson

I just gave the article a quick read.
Over all I liked the proposed class/ motor structure. Limiting the Yamato 102/302 to C will help spectators and new racers distinguish between the classes.
I am however a little confused about some of the proposed class/motor combinations. One would be that the NEW BSH ( old 20ssh )would use the 20 Sidewinder and Yamato 80, but the NEW BSR ( old 25ssr )would use the 20 Sidewinder and the 25sx. I'm just not sure of the reasoning behind that.

As a relatively new racer, the inability to buy a "new" fairly competitive motor added to the stress of getting started. I feel we NEED new competive motors to attract more racers.
And unless we want to start using factory 4 strokes we need Racing Outboards and company's like them.

Off topic
Thanks, Scott, Bass, and Racing Outboard for all you are doing for our sport!!!!

[mike ross]

I know last year the sidewinder was raced out east as a trial. I think this should continue so we get as many bugs worked out so when all the parts and pieces are done we are ready to go. This is an excellent time to be doing this. As soon as the motor is put on sale we should know what to expect. After last weekend in Constintine. We had eliminations in BSR. They put on a great show. This new motor will be able to be purchased in a variety of configurations. Powerheads to some, Complete motors, Powerhead and torch tube. The more time that goes by will delay the the 2 other versions. The alignment we all saw in propeller is great as long as the first motors off the block work well and are competitive with the current 15 c.u. Hot Rod. An update from the Sidewider factory would be good. Remember we owe Ron and Ed a huge thanks for taking on such a monumental task. Mike

[csh2z]

Glad you asked !

Let me first say that, I do not speak for Racing Outboards and this is my understanding of the situation. The Sidewinder project is a little behind the schedule that was set last year. We were hoping to have some motors available by the end of June. Some of the things that have caused delays are going to pay off in the long run. Besides design and performance issues, lining up vendors (high quality and reliable vendors) is a grueling task. To develop a product that our sport is depending on for the long term is a huge responsibility. Racing Outboards takes that responsibility very seriously. In order to produce the quality product that we expect at a reasonable cost, both now and in the foreseeable future, takes time. Every part must be designed, engineered and thoroughly tested for consistant precision, performance and durability. Even the inspection process was taken into consideration in the design of these new motors. The end result will be a dependable and affordable "Stock Racing Motor" that meets OUR needs well into the future. We are all anxious, be patient, it will be worth the wait.
In answer to your immediate question, we're hoping to bring 4 or 5 - 15c.i. motors to the nationals and they should be available for purchase soon after. The 20c.i. is not far behind, all of the design work is about done and they expect to be testing before the end of the season.
Racing Outboards, the Bass/Tohatsu, the 44XS & the Yamato 302, are the future of Stock Outboard. Their success and our success are tied together as one. As long as we support them, they will support us.
Class Structure - BSR (20c.i. Sidewinder / 25XS)
The 25XS is not compatable on the race course with CSR. We don't want to lose any of these drivers so we gave them a place to race. 25 Runabout as we currently have, goes away. We don't believe that the 25 Merc has much growth potential because the motor has been out of production for years.
As far as 25XSH, we believe that through attrition, lack of parts etc., eventually that class will go away as well. In the meantime, we don't want to do anything to artificially stimulate growth in a class without a motor in production.
BSH (20c.i. Sidewinder / Yamato 80)
The Yamato 80 has been out of production for many years. Parts are becoming scarce and the speed range is compatable with what we expect the Sidewinder to be. As time goes on the class will evolve from the Yamato to the Sidewinder. Current Yamato owners may continue to run their 80's well into the future. New members should be encouraged to buy the Sidewinder. Note: The Sidewinder will probably become faster than the Yamato once the normal evolution of boat & prop work takes place.
The SORC wants to be able to promote all classes with motors available and in production. We want new people to have the opportunity to compete on a high level with new and available equiptment for the forseeable future. When somebody buys into Stock Outboard, it needs to be a good investment for themselves and their family.

[seanp3]

First, I'd like to thank the Stock Outboard Steering Comittee for all their hard work, and Mike Johnson for the well written report.

One point I'd like to make is that the current structure lets the restricted 102/302 run in the 20SSH class. I like this because as a new driver it allows me to run multiple classes using the same motor. So, my initial thought is that if the restricted 102/302 is competetive with the new sidewinder why not continue to allow it to run in this class as they do now? I'll just put it forth as a question at this point - I'm interested what others have to say.

[DougMc]

Makes a lot of sense and should move forward.

On similar note, I would like to see the new BSH, or a class like it, become a one desing class. A class where someone could buy a complete package or kit consisting of a Sidewinder, boat and prop. Each boat would be identical and easy to build as would each propeller. Any boat builder or prop maker could sell their product, but they would all be identical. I saw it work in Soap Box Derby and F-18 sailing, and it would be the same one design concept as AOF's Minimost idea.

[kws]

Doug,
first in a perfect wold i love the idea. Yet in truth are 2 props ever actually identical? let alone 20 or 120 ? ( I am not trying to be a nay sayer. this really is a question)

[csh2z]

Sean, Our ultimate goal is to get back to one motor per class. While we know that some people are going to lose a second ride with the same boat & motor, it's better to make this change sooner rather than later before it effects too many people. Both my son & I run restricted motors in 20SS so I know how you feel.
Doug, We want people to be creative in their desire to win. During the heyday of Stock racing, with few exceptions, the only constant has always been the motor. Other then the motor, the variables make the best competition. Racing on a level playing field is the goal. I want to race my apples against your apples not oranges. There are other venues for that.
gpauto, (Please sign your post so I know who I'm talking to) When we are using motors from a large motor manufacturer we all agree, product identification is important. The Yamato & Sidewinder are produced soley for racing. I expect that the sidewinder will eventually have some sort of nameplate somewhere. As far as the use of production powerheads on a racing tower & foot, that would be our next best option. If Racing outboards hadn't been created, that would be the direction we would persue. With Racing Outboards, Bass/Tohatsu, Merc 44XS & Yamato building complete turnkey racing motors for us we currently don't have to go that route. We also want to keep all these new motors " completely Stock" to maintain a level playing field. By the way, the sidewinder is designed to start in the water and the prototype does every time.

[seanp3]

[QUOTE=csh2z;81356]Sean, Our ultimate goal is to get back to one motor per class. While we know that some people are going to lose a second ride with the same boat & motor, it's better to make this change sooner rather than later before it effects too many people. Both my son & I run restricted motors in 20SS so I know how you feel. QUOTE]


John, I kind of thought that was the direction you were going. Depending on how the sidewinder performs that may be the best thing. However, to me this kind of goes against one of your goals: to create a strategy for growth and promotion. Also, if we’re looking at ways for struggling clubs to reduce costs (I realize you meant the actual cost of putting on the race, but this is a way for someone to be able to run multiple classes cost effectively) being able to use the same motor to run two different makes sense to me as long as the restricted 302 doesn’t have a major advantage over the sidewinder. For me I like running the two classes, and if I’m required to run a separate motor it just means I will have to drop down to one class.

[acr924]

Sean, SO also needs to take into consideration the fact that there must be an incentive for people to buy the motor. Hopefully a lot of the guys that are running the restricted motors in 20 will be some of the first ones to get a new SW 20. Then, when guys see how well these motors run, new guys will join the class, and eventually you will start to see the Y 80 guys buying SWs.

Todd, The new Sidewinder is not being run in multiple classes. Sidewinder is producing a 15 ci motor(15ss), a 20 ci motor(B stock), and eventually an "A" motor(A stock). As far as re-building factory motors, or guys who know "tricks". That won't be an issue, as for the first time in our history, we have a motor that will be blueprinted from the factory. These motors are going to be built to spec, with tolerances so tight that no one will be able to take them any further. This is going to be the most "user-friendly" motor we have had.

Ryan

[raceboat61-S]

Gents,
For those of you (like me) who want to run more than one class with the same engine the answer is simple! Buy/build a runabout. I'm an old roll-up guy that switched to hydros because my knees are broken and I don't have the flexibility to move around the boat like a motocrosser. Well, Darrell Sorensen made a believer out of me. I built one of his kit flat-turnerin' runabouts. It is a safer, more stable ride than my hydros. I actually run both my 25XS and my short tower A-Mod Hot Rod on it. This year I'll try my 25Mod Merc on it for BMR. Now, I have at least 4 classes to run with just two engines. Not only that, if a Mod race is closer than a Stock race, I can now choose which race to go to, race 2 classes and still save gas and travel time.
Mike Marshall, Raceboat 61-S
P.S. I think the way to go is factory powerheads on APBA approved racing lower units for the Stock Category. It works for the Junior Category. It is the cheapest, non-technical way for stock to remain true to it's roots. Who knows, one of the manufacturers might see the financial advantage of supporting Stock racing again. They certainly like bass tournaments.

[HRTV]

Gents,
For those of you (like me) who want to run more than one class with the same engine the answer is simple! Buy/build a runabout. I'm an old roll-up guy that switched to hydros because my knees are broken and I don't have the flexibility to move around the boat like a motocrosser. Well, Darrell Sorensen made a believer out of me. I built one of his kit flat-turnerin' runabouts. It is a safer, more stable ride than my hydros. I actually run both my 25XS and my short tower A-Mod Hot Rod on it. This year I'll try my 25Mod Merc on it for BMR. Now, I have at least 4 classes to run with just two engines. Not only that, if a Mod race is closer than a Stock race, I can now choose which race to go to, race 2 classes and still save gas and travel time.
Mike Marshall, Raceboat 61-S
P.S. I think the way to go is factory powerheads on APBA approved racing lower units for the Stock Category. It works for the Junior Category. It is the cheapest, non-technical way for stock to remain true to it's roots. Who knows, one of the manufacturers might see the financial advantage of supporting Stock racing again. They certainly like bass tournaments.

Mike click on the link below and read my post.

http://216.120.234.56/forums/showthr...1373#post81373