Dirty Laundry!!

[jeff55v]

Think positive...

Well said John. I agree with many of the other posts here as well.
The future IS bright, dispite what the minority may debate here.
LJHFR.

[bill hoctor]

Clean Laundry

John: Excellent Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ryan smith]

Sure It Is

[sws115]

good let me know if i can get a dicount on saftey gear
thanks

[L. Allen]

Hey man

Who's he calling "lunatic fringe?"

[csh2z]

Mike, You're absolutely correct about the structure problem IMO. This past off-season we created a steering committee that will be intact for five years. Some of the faces will change over the course of that term but not significantly. The steering committee is designed to keep the SORC on track regardless of the leadership. If the steering committee can gain and maintain support for the plan, we should be able to follow through and have consistancy during this transitional time. We also plan to make recommendations to the APBA BoD to address the structural issues you've mentioned.
The CSH height rule- I had it put on the agenda because a few long time members asked to lower the motors because many primarily newer members were cooking there motors trying to compete at the 1/2" height. I made the motion and made the argument (quite well apparently) because that was my job. Most items on the agenda come from the people that you say don't have a voice. It was not done for safety or parity as many would like to believe. All the transom height rules are safety rules because that is where they were originated. We wouldn't want two seperate rules that conflict with each other, that would cause confusion. By the way, you never asked me how I voted on that motion.
As far as the Sidewinder / motor introduction process is concerned again you are correct in that not all the rules were followed to a tee. We are in a new era and the rules are obselete. That too the steering committee is addressing to update the procedure to fit the way we have to do business with potential manufacturers. Racing Outboards made a committment to build racing motors for stock outboard. In turn, the SORC had to make a committment to Racing Outboards. They are making the investment, and taking the risk, and we provide an opportunity for them to succeed by establishing a class structure that will benefit all.
Congrats on getting off the alcohol. I hope I answered your questions satisfactorily and thanks for your concern, passion and input. See you soon.

[Dave M]

Point

Nobody has addressed Dave's real question, Cost....... Why race boats when you can race Karts or ATV's for a lot less ?

Pehaps a different way of promoting the sport would be a good place to invest some time and funds rather than all the advocating of rules. I don't know the answer but I do know the cost of this sport is beyond your grass roots racing. The people that are attracted to boat racing usually don't a ton of spending cash laying around to invest into. And there are not enough races in any region to allow for them to paritcipate for a high point run and not travel long distances. Add the cost of gas, and by the way it is cheaper in CA than MI based on my experience a couple weeks ago.

On question that someone might already have asked, why go after boat manufacturers and motor factories to sponsor us ? It seems everyone agrees that this is a family sport, and everyone agrees beer is consumed at races, and lots of water and sports drinks in the daytime..... why not go after them for funding ? Find a new wanting to break into the market beverage company and work with them for a couple years. They will soon realize they can get a lot more bang for their buck at high school football fields but it is a way to get them on board for a year or two.

Perosnally I think we have priced the sport into a failing business. Mod and stock are supposed to be stepping grounds for Pro, OPC, Inboard, ETC. Quit trying to retain members, get new ones and a lot of them. Lower the costs and I would bet you could get a lot of new members. I know this is a lot easier said than done.

[csh2z]

Dave, How much would you charge for a new CSH boat, finished with hardware, with kevlar reinforced coamings?

[ryan_4z]

It should also be mentioned that none of the Sidewinders are legal motors yet, and only one of them is on probation so far. For those of you who seem to be so concerned that we are putting to much faith in Racing Outboards please remember this. If Racing Outboards doesn't hold up their end, then the motors won't be made legal on the schedule that we have defined.

[David Weaver]

[QUOTE=PopPop;78582][QUOTE=Dave M;78577] Mod and stock are supposed to be stepping grounds for Pro, OPC, Inboard, ETC.

Who ever said that mod and stock were "supposed" to be stepping stones to anything. A lot of stock drivers can drive the butts off of Pro, OPC, Inboard, ETC. Some, not all, of those guys are over there because they couldn't hack it in stock.

I could not hack all the arguing personally.

[Dave M]

Me Either

[QUOTE=David Weaver;78585][QUOTE=PopPop;78582]

Mod and stock are supposed to be stepping grounds for Pro, OPC, Inboard, ETC.


I could not hack all the arguing personally.

Not even going to entertain that one.

John, I di not build boats as a business. I occasionally build one or two for others to make some extra cash, as Dave Scott mentioned, you don't make very much money for your time. But were i to build a C stock hydro for someone I would most likley charge around $3500 - $4000 range. As you know, there is no less time involved in building an A stock boat or a 350CCH, and only slighlty less in materials cost. Personally for me, the addition of kevlar to the coamings added about 3 days of work to each boat. Lets be real here, you can't simply lay up the sides using gravity. You have to bag the kevlar to ensure the proper strength to weight ratios are met. A cheap pump cost anywhere from $200 - $3500. Now build a table out of 2 x 4's and plywood add another $100.00 Now go get the table surface so your epoxy won't stick. Now add Bag supplies. If you order from a catalog it cost about $3.00 - $5.00 per yard for the bag. Peel Ply is about the same, maybe a little more. Bleeder/Breather is about the same per yard. Now then, tape for the bag is around $5.00/roll. One roll usually works for two or three pulls if it is enough to go around your table. So now then, lets use basic numbers.

Kevlar, found at $16.00/yard to $18.00/yard anywhere. You need about 10 yards to do up coamings for a boat, probably less, but I found most of it is 50" wide. You still need the length. If you are carefull you can get one whole side in one length. So average length of coamings is what 8 feet ? Lets say it is. Now mind you, this is JUST kevlar and not any other re-enforcment cloth as you WILL need these. Carbon or glass. Or you can double up on the Kevlar and hope it is stiff enough. So lets say $15.00/yd for 10Yards is $150.00 Yehaa cheap walls... wrong. Add 10 yards of Bag, peel ply, and breather/bleeder. now you are up to what. Lets say we find a deal$3.00/yd for all three. 30 yards times 3.00 is another $100.00. Mind you I have not added shipping to any of these yet. Now you need a gallon of Westm you will use about half a gallon give or take some. Another $100.00. Now wer are up to closr to $400.00 for JUST Kevlar and bagging supplies. Add your foamcore if you so choose to use this instead of wood. I do. I get seconds for about $20.00/sheet, and it takes three sheets per side. One is cut to length. I also incorparate wood into the rear to tie into the cross frames for strength and not foam. So here is another $120.00 plus shipping. This is no labor costs either.......... and the most basic of basic coamings.

Someone said it added about $1000.00 to the cost of a boat, now you can see why. I am sure you can find cheaper ways to do it, just laminate two layers each of Kevlar to the existing sides and them buy some Kevlar tape and overlap it onto the deck, paint and away you got compliant for probably around $200 - 300 all told in materials. Not the safest thing, but it can be done.

Y'all have a good one debating.

[nbass]

Is there an alternative

Dave, is there a suitable alternative in the rules? Seems like a layer of aluminum or thin stainless steel would be cheaper and might even work better. How about a metallic layer set between plywood layers? How about just thick plywood? With a little analysis, I could probably identify some alternatives that would have equal properties. There is always alternatives if allowed by the rules.
Neil Bass

[Dr. Thunder]

Lunatic fringe !

Tony ... is this an inside joke or do you really mean what you said?

" ... This site represents the "lunatic fringe" of the sport ..."

Tony

If so, then I guess both of us are in this very special club.

[Dave M]

Probably

Dave, is there a suitable alternative in the rules? Seems like a layer of aluminum or thin stainless steel would be cheaper and might even work better. How about a metallic layer set between plywood layers? How about just thick plywood? With a little analysis, I could probably identify some alternatives that would have equal properties. There is always alternatives if allowed by the rules.
Neil Bass

Lots of things would work. Kevlar, in my opinion only, is not the best possible solution. But it is what rules say, so Kevlar it is. Certainly better than nothing at all.

[bill boyes]

Question? Just how strong do they want the cockpit sides anyway? So strong and stiff that when a driver goes out of the boat and hits his/hers hip on the sides that they suffer a broken hip?