rule proposal 21

[csh2z]

Ron, The purpose of this proposal is to promote viable growth classes to new perspective boat racers and to discontinue selling JUNK to people that are trying to start racing. These classes "on the bubble" are DYING because of lack of interest or lack of available motors. John 2-Z

[Ron Hill]

So, The New Tahatsu D Is...JUNK???

I don't see any problem with this NEW RACE MOTOR...Except no one can figure out how to let it race in D Hydro and Rule 21 will kill D Runabout before it gets restarted...

Let's see: Two Stroke Mercury AXS isn't legal to sell in California..

OMC 15 is over 20 years old...

Ric Montoya has 90 Yamato 302's in stock.......


There are motors....

To me, the answer to GROW Boat Racing is running more heats, with more boats per heat, , on lakes where the water is rougher than a quarter inch chop...

I can see D Runabout growing, because they won't be going 95 MPH and can run on lakes where other boats are running...

I guess I could wait to buy a Sidewinder B.....But at 240, "B" is a little out of my league...

We could run a few OLD 36 boats...with a RUN what you brung concept...Maybe, someone would buy a new $5,000 Tohatsu "D"...

Too many racers that I know, want to race their three laps with four boats, get their points, and go to the next four boat class to get their points...

Points are cool, but when it becomes the driving force at a race...You end up with what I see in Region 12...Three classes with four boats...

Marathons liike Top of Michigan, need D Runabout. They need a TITLE to go with the race...And I I said before, ANYONE in the National could race Top of Michigan...but the D Runabout winner, is the National Marathon Champiuon, if only one boat runs...

When I won the 1966 Marathon Nationals, there were maybe 18 D Runabouts... The 1967 Marathon Nationals had about the same numbers... 1968 the same...(I also won in 1968, but never got my name in a magazine)...

In 1969, it went down hill...

Note: The 1966 and 1967 Marathon Nationals had National Coverage in Powerboat magazine...1968 saw change in ownership...

What would do MORE GOOD for boat racing would be to WRITE "HOW TO" and "WHY BOAT RACING IS FUN" or "Why Race at Melville..." Or...

I was fired by Bob Nordskog when he bought Powerboat magazine...

Too many racers see Speed as the answer....Think why people have stayed in OUTBOARD racing...Friends, Family and FUN!!!

If you note the start at Bay City, here, CU, DU and 36 started together...More than 25 boats make a start....but the STATUS besides winning a TITLE, they got an article in a magazine...


WWW.HYDRORACER.COM is viewed daily, by more people than read Powerboat in those days...

Our Blue Water Resort and Casino Race, booked 100 rooms for the weekend at the Casino...We had 41 boats, six classes, the race lasted four hours...The race got coverage in Powerboat, Hot Boat, Family and Performance Boating....We have some many people wanting to run next year, we are having a hard time figuring out rules for different boats...

Did Parker have status?? I KNOW SO! We had 41 boats, most of one kind was maybe 7 V-Drives...Will we have a RACE this October??? Sure...


My point about Mickey, Alan Stoker, and Alan Sutfin, was that they didn't leave the sport, the sport left them...

Why drop any class? Combine them and run what you BRUNG???

C Runabout, D Runabout 36 Local....D Mod, C MoD...All these Runabouts could be combined, and race three heats...If any class got boats, give them their own race. But dropping ANY CLASS HAS NEVER IMPROVED ANYTHING!!!!

How many KG-4's would still be running if they were allowed to run???A Local A???

Why can't a FISHING 15 HP be a Local J motor??? I can buy a 15 Johnson for $300...But to run J, I need a $2,400 race motor???

Nothing wrong with OLD JUNK...Ever been to a Calssic Boat Show/ Clayton, NY?? How about a Classic Car Show....?

Boat racing would be cool if we had a Class like cars do...IE Midget.....but we don't and I guess we could throw out every class unless they have 100 boats...But to me...a class will be ONE BOAT!

[Ron Hill]

Two In The Boat...

WOA was very big in the 1960's in California...We had 118 boats at havasu, 1966...There were maybe 4 APBA drivers..Ted May, Fred Miller, Paul Kalb, Ron Hill, Burt Ross....

With Mercury Factory and Evinrude/Jonhson Factory "HELP" all the Family Racers were gone within ten years...

I'd suggest D Runbout's rules be changed to allow any 44 Cublic Inch motor, and the Bass Tohatsu, and require two in the boat....

See, the 44 rule would allow a 45 SS powerhead, with a 1:1 or the standard gearcase to race...If you wanted a new motor, you could buy one...Rather than DROP the class....Think outside the BOX and open the rules up to FUN!

Tell me these guys aren't having fun, RACING!!!! (Picture, 1964)...Pre Factory "STATUS" Racing)...

[csh2z]

Ron, Nobody said the Tohatsu is junk. It is our hope that the Tohatsu will save the D classes from it's inevitable decline. In 2006, in DSR, the whole year, nationwide, 22 DSR's crossed the starting line at an APBA race - COMBINED! Some drivers had 2,3 or 4 races, the rest had 1. This class is going to be difficult to grow. Is it fair to promote this class, currently, to a new boat racer, knowing it's future is so uncertain? Is that a good investment for a new driver? Are you going to buy one?

[Ron Hill]

Why Would I Buy A Tahatsu?

I have 34 powerhead for 45 SS motors...

Legalize the the Chrysler 50 and 45 SS motor in D Runabout...with the 1;1 or Stock foot, call it D2, and I'll put a D Runabout or two on the water!Keep it as a national class...A new driver might like to have a trailer with a D RUnaobut on it...

I was just thinking, Rod Zapf still has his 36 runabout in his hanger...Last time that boat was used, his son and Chad were 14...They drove two in the boat for a week at Big Bear...

That is four 36 runabouts that have sat for 30 years because the class was dropped...What good did dropping 36 do for boat racing?

[ricochet112]

I have 34 powerhead for 45 SS motors...

Legalize the the Chrysler 50 and 45 SS motor in D Runabout...with the 1;1 or Stock foot, call it D2, and I'll put a D Runabout or two on the water!Keep it as a national class...A new driver might like to have a trailer with a D RUnaobut on it...

I was just thinking, Rod Zapf still has his 36 runabout in his hanger...Last time that boat was used, his son and Chad were 14...They drove two in the boat for a week at Big Bear...

That is four 36 runabouts that have sat for 30 years because the class was dropped...What good did dropping 36 do for boat racing?

DSR was dead when I went to my first Nationals in Wakefield in 1990.

The glory days of boat racing are gone, let it go Ron, and move into the now.

We need less classes, period! Somone's class will go away, can't play favorites.

What worked 20-30 years ago won't work today.

[ryan_4z]

What worked 20-30 years ago won't work today.

Despite what Ron may say, 36 Runabout didn't work 30 years ago either. It failed then, and it would fail now.

[Ron Hill]

I'm In the "NOW"

Boith sons race SST 45. We have two Gran Prix boats, one Hoffman, wood and a brand new CARBON FIBER, $8,000 Revolution. We also sold a Revolution, laast week to a new driver. We have Five complete SST 45 rigs...

I sponsored John Lane all 2006 in the Western Formula Lites Series...

Our series average 16 boats per race.....BUT I'm not suggesting dropping 45 SS as a class, as this rule was REALLY written to do...

You telling me MAGAZINE ARTICLE didn't work??

When we raced on TV for 39 weeks, we once counted, at a club meeting, that every new driver came from watching Speedboat Rodeo...

There are 12 J Hydros being built in Washington.........Did this class work 20 years ago when Ernie Dawe came up with the RESTRICTOR Plate???

I could say...Who needs any class? We've got 45, we race at Long Beach, San Diego, Bakersfield, Parker....Chowchilla...Most make it on TV...Why do we need to worry about anyone else.....????

BECAUSE GRASS ROOTS BOAT RACING IS IMPORTANT....

30 years ago, the MID WEST didn't want the YAMATO...Where would kneeldowns be without the YAMATO??? In case you forgot, Mercury built about 25, 25 SS motors...Where are they today...


What doesn't work is sitting around saying. "man things are going to get better...''by cutting out classes..." How things will get better is PROMOTING QUALITY RACES..WELL PLANNED OUT SCHEDULE with a less than 4 hour program.


Have you ever talked to an "interest" racer?? They want to know how the BRAKE works (Throttle)...If you wanted to move in to the year 2000, every kneeldown class would change to sit down!!!!

Now, there is an IDEA! When my dad started in 1935, kneeling made sense, because you had to crank the motor, then lay on the deck to pull skiiers....Today, a kneeldown driver can't start his own motor for fear of sinking the boat, or unplugging his kill switch... Why not sit down???

[Ron Hill]

36 Didn't Fail, It was Failed...

Thew SORC wanted to make Stock Outboarding Grow....So, they cut the weak classes...36 was weak...

So, The Southern California Outboard Association lost 36 Runabout...They also lost, their Commodore, Race Chairman, Publicity Editor, Patrol Boats...and general club workers....

Clubs really grow when they have NO MEMBERS!

36 was FAILED by the SORC.....

Who do you think wrote this NEWSPAPER ARTICLE??? Ken Scoville, Sr. 36 racer for LIFE...

Of course, I put the race on...Got $2,000 from Vail Lake, to put this race on and we raced for FREE ENTRY Fees.......After 36 went away, so did our NEWSPAPER ARTICLES!!!! Hmm...37 years ago....newspaper articles in Orange County's largest newspaper... The next year, I was the Marshall of the Strawberry festrival parade....with my boat behind my car....


Cutting classes won't grow anything MAGAZINE ARTICLES...NEWSPAPER ARTICLES...TV SPOTS....QUALITY RACES....MIGHT GROW BOAT RACING!

[csh2z]

You're right Ron, 36 class is the answer!

[race4kaos]

Ron vs. Runnes

the focus of this thread was to help the foreseeable future of SO.

runne's are talking about getting class #'s down and encouraging growth in the popular classes.
ron is talking about pretty much anything that's ever happened in the 1900's. i think your scope of boating racing is more on an APBA level - including plenty of vintage.

i would also like to point out what works in the east and west may be different. east of the mississippi, a 'combined' event is stock and mod. most all classes show. west of it, 'combined' means everything and anything on the water. only 1/3 of the classes show. total entries may be similar...

ron, SO for sure doesn't need more classes and certainly not 36 runabout - i'm tired of hearing about it. for real. keep putting 45 turn-key rigs together for newbies. amen.

back to the focus of the thread, why do the people against rule 21 think a class that is NOT raced nationally should be a 'national' class? it's simple in my mind - it shouldn't be. that doesn't mean it can't race or winning against the locals in BSR (or whatever) is any less of a feat.

HOC may be effected and that's about it. and anything that keep's ed out in the future is a positive in my book.

[ryan_4z]

HOC may be effected and that's about it. and anything that keep's ed out in the future is a positive in my book.

That's the real reason I want this to pass!

Ron,

You are right on a lot of aspects. Magazine and newspaper articles are great ways to promote this sport, any kind of tv time is gold. Like you said, the big key is to put on a good show. Well, a 2 boat DSR race is not a good show, 12 CSHs or 20ssHs is. Like Kevin said, your view of boat racing is more from an APBA level, not just Stock. This is what makes APBA great, we have different categories for different things. If stockers wanted to sit down, they wouldn't be stockers, they'd be in OPC. Stock racers don't go around telling the other categoried to do things their way. Why don't you OPC guys have any kneeldown classes? Because if OPC guys wanted to kneel, they would run STOCK! Why is it that every time we talk about the future of Stock Outboard, so many people seem to want Stock to become this melting pot of different categories. Maybe we should just do things the Stock Ouboard way. Here is a quote about what Stock Outboard really is, and what we need to do to grow it.

"Only if Stock Outboard racing is placed [back] on a firm foundation of competition, with equipment that is essentially identical in any given class, with motors so constructed that those isolated few who may seek unfair advantage over honest fellow competitors can be readily detected, will the fast growing game of Stock Outboard racing continue to flourish."

That is a quote from Hank Bowman. He knew years ago, what would kill stock outboard, and how to save it. COMPETITION. That is what Stock is about. An even playing field. That is the Stock Outboard way. That is why Stock Outboard has been so successful for so long. And before anyone tries to argue with me on that point, look at the membership numbers. We need to get back to doing things our way. One motor per class, cut the 4 boat races, and put Stock Outboard back on a "firm foundation of competition."

[ryan_4z]

36 Didn't Fail, It was Failed...


Thew SORC wanted to make Stock Outboarding Grow....So, they cut the weak classes...36 was weak...

36 was FAILED by the SORC.....

Yeah, right, and I didn't fail Calculus, my school failed me.

[Brian10s]

Stock racers don't go around telling the other categoried to do things their way.

Uh, Ryan - care to rephrase that statement.

Just kidding with you - but somebody had to say it.

[ricochet112]

That is four 36 runabouts that have sat for 30 years because....[/quote]

Didn't mean to harsh on you Ron, I just heard 36 runabout for the 62nd time and lost it for a minute.