rule proposal 21

[Dr. Thunder]

<snip> ... With that in mind, why can't this ballot item be declared null and void, and re-mailed out correctly?

Because, according to John, the SORC did not intend this to be a ballot item in the first place.

So I still ask ... who authorized this to be sent to the membership ... somebody got some 'splainin to do!

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Lol!!

Not really sure who ya are Dr. Thunder, but you are crackin' me up!!!
I agree 100%

Every darn one of you have made some great posts on this thread and should be proud of yourselves! Very interesting dialogue!

I like Ron Hill's point chart..show's he was ahead of the times thinking up that one....ok, Ron dont let your head swell too much, sure love reading what you write!

It looks like it is a little too complex though. Couldn't we run our race as usual with regular points. Before the scorer sends the summary sheets into Apba the appropriate number is put beside the person with the most points and on down in the race. If there are 12 boats in the race the driver with the win gets 12 pts and on down to 1 for last place.

Wouldn't this be easy? Can't believe Apba would charge for something so simple.

p.s. calling our fearless leader Ed....toss this ballot out and rewrite it as it was supposed to be (with Dana's additions) and I will betcha it will pass!!!

p.s.s i doubt any of us want the 45's to go away, they are cool!!!
they just never should have been in the stock category in the first place.
Just my opinion....keep up the good work guys!!!

[PopPop]

Ryan

Ryan remains a voice of reason in this debate and is much more likely to win the nationals in CSH than the Nobel Prize.

[sponsonhead]

Well, yeah, but......

Ryan remains a voice of reason in this debate and is much more likely to win the nationals in CSH than the Nobel Prize.

Agree that Ryan paints a picture of a great challenge to all of us in that post.

I just wonder why his signature says "Striving for Mediocrity"

See you in August, 4-Z.

R-19

[Cameraboy]

Ryan's post summed up the intent of "Proposal 21" extremely well.

Doc, I'm with you - this needs fixing. In fact, the whole rule making process needs fixing. But that's a topic for another thread.

Guedo - you da man!

[Ron Hill]

Hmmm...Not My Point System...Just the Promoter....

My brother's point system was developed to ENCOURAGE people to pull boats off their trailers and race. (In those days, three boats got points...and if five boats were out there and you owned two, and you broke down you didn't get points...So, why loan a boat out? Even in the GOOD OLD DAYS, there were races that had three boats)....In fact, I think Paul Kalb once had a three or four day race and only ran BU!!!! Forgot the details, but these races lead to the passing of the 15 race average. Originally, you HAD to race 15 races before they would count you for an average...I won 13 races in 1962, and was second in the Nationals and DID not get 1-US in DU....

My brother's system was NEVER designed to be used at a RACE, only at Nationals Head Quarters....

We used the system in COBRA for a couple of years, then COBRA went broke...SO!!!!

Anyway....

What would happen if we had three heats and gave 600 points to win??? 450 for second???


Hey John....You are a BREATH of FRESH AIR at the races and with your post (s)... (Even though we ARE RELATED).....(Can you Region 10 guys believe that???)...

Your OLD man says he'll come to The Harm Project J boats this Saturday...IS he full of BS??? Your dad and I have talked safety, almost everytime we talk, which is at least weekly....We both agree that 45 SEEMS SAFER.......than kneeldowners....

It is ironic, that the J prop deal was designed to make things easier....and like most changes... Did it help??? I do know that half the fun of us running J Runabout was "TESTING" props...being with my son!!!

Are you going to be around Saturday??? Carl Lewis is going to be our guide!!! Jimbo McConnell and myself will be at the La Quinta Inn in Federal Way...Friday, Saturday and Sunday!!!

Why not fly down to Parker and run my new REVOLUTION in 45 SS and SST 45...(April 21-22...)...??

[Hagerl 6M]

I Feel Picked On

THIS RULE IS THE TOP O' MARATHON KILLER!!!!!!

I like change. But I don't like getting squeezed into a class I don't like or will never like.

What will happen is that the majority of the classes at Top O' will be regional classes and won't count for squat besides hurt knees. That is NOT an ok thing. Then, after they are just regional classes they will slip into the the three year range and be deleted from SO. In that case Top O' might as well become a vintage category race. Paints a pretty bleak picture, eh? If you are a Top O' fan or racer, PLEASE vote "NO" on this.

As for short course racing this rule along with the so called "new hotrod" will probably force a lot of drivers to the C classes. I'm not about to get into a C with their heavy boats and side fins. People keep saying that the "new hotrod" will save the world for medium sized drivers but I am skeptical. I would love to be proved wrong but I am worried about the punch out of the turns and the HP to weight issue. Again, would love to be proved wrong. If my worries are right coupled with the new class rule (If it passes) then there would be a choice for a medium sized driver. Either go down to A or go up to C. Neither looks appealing to my personal preferences.

This is just MY opinion and I do not want to get anyone mad. If you were a part of getting this rule on the ballot or are a big proponent of the rule change, PLEASE do not take this as a personal jab. We can agree to disagree and still have have a beer after the race, no matter what class we are racing in the future.

[jeff55v]

If they don't want us...

THIS RULE IS THE TOP O' MARATHON KILLER!!!!!

I really doubt this will pass. At least not the way it's written now.
IF it does, and DSR is threatened, there's always NBRA and AOF. They do offer nationally recognized points. And they would LOVE to welcome a big batch of new racers as well as a new race site!
Just something to think about.

[mike ross]

Ok let me refresh everyones memory. Here is what was approved in LA. It doesn't eliminate any class from being run as we run today. If you fall below the minumum 35 number you are now a local class. If John Runne would post the way the classes would look going forward it might help everyone see were there class might look like in the future. You can see this rule doesn't even effect us this year. After next year is when we start looking at boat counts. It gives us 2 years to get any class with low numbers up. The D class has to start buying engines and come racing if it is to stay a National Class. It can run at the Marathon Nationals for ever, I suggested to the race committee for the marathon to invite MBRA and AOF. This might bring some of those drivers over to increase our numbers and help some of the lower number classes. Maybee all race committes should look at inviting the 2 other racing divisions to come and run with us. The below was from the minutes in LA pertaining to this new rule we need to pass. We also passed a 5 year steering committe to moniter and watch and change if needed as we go along. Get them boats ready and lets go racing!!!!! Mike

p. Discussion of SO Long Term Plan:

John Runne and his steering committee to give there ideas as well as the SORC and VP

Motion made to except John Runne’s Minimum participation Proposal Affective Nov 1 2007.
Motion – Passes

A. In Order for a racing class to be recognized with National standing and be eligible for all awards for a racing season, there must be at least 35 participants in the preceding racing year.
B, Participants will be defined as any driver who garnered points in a SO class during the racing year.
C. Should a class not have 35 participants in a racing year, the class will be deemed a local/regional class for the next racing year. The class will not be eligible for National High Points, National Championships, Winter Nationals Championships, Divisional Championships, Waldman & Menzies Awards. Further, no activity in the class will count toward the Hall of Champion points.
D. If the class reaches a minimum of 35 participants in the year it is designated as a local/regional class, it will be reinstated as a National class for the next year. If a SO class falls below 35 participants for 2 consecutive years, that class will remain as a Local/Divisional class and be placed on probation. To be removed from Probation and return to National standing for the for the next racing season, a class must meet the minimum of 35 participants during the Probationary year.

Motion made to have a Steering Committee for the next 5 years. Motion - Passes

[Dr. Thunder]

So, Mike, how does the information in the approved minutes get to be a ballot item? Perhaps a better question would be ... have the SORC minutes as submitted been approved by the SORC?

[Steve Johnson]

Swift Kick in the pants?

this is a respectful question.
Just how exactly does the SORC expect us to respond to a class falling below ANY minimum? Just what kind of magic should the DSR folks for example do?

As a driver in some of the classes on the bubble, what should be expected of ME to "SAVE" my class?
I'm going to throw this out there. Not my Job to lend everything in my trailer All the time. I sure go out of my way to get rigs on the water. But one of these days I'm sure I'll lend out my $10,000 D rig and It will come back broken. then what? Thanks? I've even Bought several out of pocket to help. D stock is expensive,Heavy, Fast, and can be quite dangerous for someone inmature enough to handle it. Participation shows, It ain't for most folks.
So with all due respect. How should we build up our class? What is a reasonable expectation? .
I'm going to say here that although these numbers sound reasonable. I still think the whole thing relys on NEGATIVE/Punitive actions to encourage participation. and the guy's you want to save are the one's that will be punished.
Now that being said... I'm going to hurt some feelings here. the classes that are on the bubble have been run by private parties. If your parts supply is poor, or folks have no desire to deal with these Manufacturers than the problem lies with the folks selling motors or parts. And a bad bottom line is the punishment that goes along with this. Unfortunately we as a whole suffer. And It goes without saying that, this is what we will be dealing with from here out. The Major Players have opted out and will most likely never be back. I'm O.K. with this. Life changes.
Being assurred a Spot in the SORC roster comes at some cost. Manufactures are essentially given a spot (CONTRACT)? to do what they will, with little free market compititon. This needs to be EARNED. Some motors might need to be given away , Incentives might need to be given. Quality needs to be assured. Prompt service, easy ordering. ect....

So again I ask, What more is to be expected from the drivers in any lagging class?

respectfully submitted,
Steve Johnson

[csh2z]

Steve, The answer is simple although the solution is very difficult. When I speak to a prospective new driver, I highly recommend getting into the C classes. Currently, I believe that to be the best investment out there. The motors are readily available and they are on almost every schedule. We have to make all of our classes a good investment. When a class falls below 35 participants, that is a warning that something needs to be done because if it gets worse, the class may not be able to be salvaged. That is where we are now. John 2-Z

[dholt]

Good post, Steve

I'm not a commissioner but as a member of the Steering Committee, I'll offer this.


Anyone competing in a "bubble" class needs to race and encourage all others in his class to race.

But most importantly...accept the fact that we are all capable of change...and that it can be a good thing.

In 1985...the last year of the 'A' Merc...there were about 125 ASH. 4 years later with the OMC, there were 165.

1985 ASR 'A' Merc, 118 boats. 1987 with the OMC...143.

1985 25ssH dominated by old Merc 25ss...first year of Merc 25XS. 45 boats. 1989 over 100 boats exclusively Merc 25xs.


I bet there were plenty of naysayers who predicted the end of the world when those old motors were replaced. People changed....they adapted if they wanted to race. Same thing happening now. There are viable OPTIONS for all of us in SO. And just as important...and I can't stress this enough...there should be viable options for the people the SO category is trying to attract.

[Steve Johnson]

Wrong answer

That answer, while being the practical one does not answer the ? what should the drivers of a lagging class do to help our numbers? Should we all jump ship to the Popular class? I'm sure everyone of us is going the extra mile to help the "new Guy". Again I ask the question. Tell us what we are to do and I'm sure we will step up.

[csh2z]

Steve, The unfortunate truth is If only a handful of people out of 300,000,000 Americans are attracted to our sport or an individual class,it may be time to let it go. Currently, in the D class we have a new motor available and the full support of the SORC. D is growing in the northwest. There is no reason to believe that it can't grow elsewhere. We need only 10 more drivers in the next 3 years after 2007 to salvage this class. If that can't be done, the class will remain on the local level until it is gone. I think that is very fair and achievable. John 2-Z