Hydro Construction

[sadiemydog1]

Read some of the rules concerning new hydros in 08 and have several questions. Reinforced cockpit sides. Whats the standard in laymans terms and who is going to enforce this and how? Does this mean that your going to have an approved builder construct your new boat. What about the person who wants design and build his own. Will that be allowed? What is the standard for rounded points for Run and Hydro? Is their an estimate as to how much this will add to the cost?
Art K

[modhydro]

Hydro guidelines

Art,

I'm sure that something will come out soon with the details. There isn't really anything that special to doing the job to any spec. If you can work with fiberglass cloth, you can work with carbon and Kevlar. Admittedly, Kevlar is the most difficult to work with, but contrary to popular myth, it can be cut when dry with regular scissors and if you use your head and plan properly, it acutally not that bad when the resin is set up. With a little bit of practice and a well thought out proceedure, it is even pretty easy to add into an existing boat. As far as the rounded sponson tips, it shouldn't add any cost to the new boat built with them originally. If the builder is telling you otherwise, I'm afraid he is just profiteering from the rule. Even to retro fit and existing boat shouldnt' take more than about 2 1/2 hours. The biggest expense would be to repair the expensive paint job that many boats have.

I'm as anxious as you to see what the guidlines are going to be and look forward to seeing them myself.

Steve Roskowski

[Dave M]

Not Set In Stone

No real rules have come out yet for APBA.

My real concern is this Kevlar added will not be tied into the rest of the boat, and all you have is a driver snadwhich when struck. In other words, if you simplt glue in a panel, or cloth to a cockpit side, that is not tied into the rest of the boat securley, meaning girders, then all you have is about 3mm plywood holding all that in. That will delaminate fast in a crash and your nice composite side will become much more dangerous than if you did not have it.

Just some food for though for the powers to think on when writing this new rule out. Perhaps some rules on contruction methods need to be implemented as well to ensure proper use of the materials they are mandating. It seems to me that a lot of folks simply think adding this cloth to the existing combings is an answer, even in new construction.

I am currently making a new boat that is UIM compliant. It is not difficult, you just need to make sure things are tied together the way they should be to prevent what they want to prevent. Simply adding some kevlar is not going to achieve the desired results.

My opinion.

[flaursen]

that is the point

I think the point behind that rule is to make the side collapes as a unit not bust up in pieces like what happens in a typcal crash by creating a solid panel the boat is more likely going to be pushed rather than being busted up. I really don't think we need to add more rules to the mess and have the organization telling us how to build them too I really don't think it will be such a big deal as long as it is kept simple but if we make it complicated then the cost and inspection of said upgrades are going to increase the cost dramatically

Frank Laursen

[modhydro]

Cockpit side thoughts

Dave and all,

Here are some thoughts on the sides to help put things in perspective. Even if we say that a whole side gets knocked loose, the force that will be transfered to the driver will be less than a penetration hit where the side doesn't do much at all to stop it. Let's ignore the contribution that the energy absorbed by the cockpit side being either punctured or being pulled away makes.

Lets assume 500# of force on the side. With a puncture of 6" x 6" the force will be 2000#. Lets now assume that the whole side comes loose. At 7' long and averaging 14" tall the area is now 8.17 square feet and the force on the driver will be 61.2#. I realize that it will hit part of you first and not spread out to the full area, but this is just a simplified example. You simply cannot beat increasing the area to reduce the force.

Now lets try units that boatracers will understand a little easier. In the first case you would be squashed by 387.1 cased of beer! That is 9290 12oz cans! In the reinforced side case it would only be 11.8 cases of beer. Please remember that light beer will not change these results!

If your cockpit side is laminated with reinforcing fiber that spans its length extending behind the dash in the front and behind the wetwell and transom in the back, you have also added degrees of constraint that increase the strength even more.

I'm as anxious as any to see what the recommendations are. I also hope that everyone realizes that they are just that and we all can go above and beyond to build them stronger and better.

Lets try to keep all the sandwiches to tasty meals between heats on the beach and follow racing with a couple of coolers filled with our new force units!

Steve Roskowski

[ryan_4z]

Now lets try units that boatracers will understand a little easier. In the first case you would be squashed by 387.1 cased of beer! That is 9290 12oz cans! In the reinforced side case it would only be 11.8 cases of beer. Please remember that light beer will not change these results!

So, re-enforced cockpit sides equals less beer! Less beer is never a good thing.

[FL47F]

Tastes Great! Hurts more!

Less Fillng! Hurts Less!

Now I get it.......

thanks Ryan.

[Dave M]

Exactly

My point, if they don't say how it is to be constructed, you will have a lot of people simply laminating some kevlar on the inside between the transom and dash and there you go. Not exactly what I think the spirit of the new rule is intended to do.

I have always tied in the carbon and or Kevlar into the transom, and into the dash, as well as to the cross frames. This goes well beyond what I am sure the rule will be. But if you are going to mandate it, do it right and save a lot of retro fits later on that will cost money.

Anyone who is building a boat, this is a simple proceedure, and I am always willing to offer advice and opinions on what wil make you job easier and safer. I will also be offering re-enforced cockpit (combings) sides for sale that are UIM compliant already for sale. I will have a standard panel and instructions on how to intall. In additon, I will offer up panels to add to existing boats that will be safe.

Dave

[rbtv7]

Steve: Are those cases of beer "Bud Lite" or "Dirt Cheap" beer ? B BURT

[kws]

NO NO NO GOOD BEER OR BAD DOESNT MATTER they weigh the SAME
now if you already DRank da beers then they are lighter. the cans that is not you

btw did you see that people that drink lottsa beer should drink coffee? it helps your liver hehe

[Jeff Akers]

My point, if they don't say how it is to be constructed, you will have a lot of people simply laminating some kevlar on the inside between the transom and dash and there you go. Not exactly what I think the spirit of the new rule is intended to do.

I have always tied in the carbon and or Kevlar into the transom, and into the dash, as well as to the cross frames. This goes well beyond what I am sure the rule will be. But if you are going to mandate it, do it right and save a lot of retro fits later on that will cost money.

Anyone who is building a boat, this is a simple proceedure, and I am always willing to offer advice and opinions on what wil make you job easier and safer. I will also be offering re-enforced cockpit (combings) sides for sale that are UIM compliant already for sale. I will have a standard panel and instructions on how to intall. In additon, I will offer up panels to add to existing boats that will be safe.

Dave

Dave, I like the way you think....One question though, How do you plan on making a pre-fab U.I.M. cockpit side panel if the U.I.M. rules state an overlap on the deck

Or, are you just talking about a flat panel that is constructed to U.I.M. standerds of material, then bonding it to a wood cockpit side ?






oops, I guess that was two questions...

[wagner-racing16-s]

i am fine with the carbon sides and what not but look at the rising cost of carbon fiber and kevlar clothe. Where is one going to get it from? It just seems that it is making it harder for people to stay in this sport due to money and everything else. I am learning right now on how to build boats and look to build them for people in the future and understanding on where to get this material would be great. It would be a good idea to add it to the vendors page.

[DeanFHobart]

Kevlar and Graphite Cloth Source

One source is TAP PLASTICS..... and they have a web site.

[Composite Specialties]

Sides

Dr. Woodcraft Wagner, if you ever want to get into making the composite sides, just email me and I will be glad to walk you thru it and give you vendor info and all. You are doing a great job on the new boat from the plans.

[flaursen]

Distributor

Jamestown Distributors do a search under carbon fiber or kevlar and you will get results


here is a link
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...tegoryId%7E203

You are correct this stuff is not cheap

Frank Laursen