How would YOU build your CSH!

[ram95]

Great idea! I assume you guys have a wind tunnel at your disposal? Good! Now go build a boat, and: A) put an AOA (angle of attack) indicator on it which will trigger a spoiler in the event the front end gets too-too high. B) find a location and put a pitot tube on it connected to a digital airspeed indicator. That way you'll know how fast it was really going when it started to blow over.

Speed across the water (ground speed) only counts for the kilo-record books. Hullspeed thru the air is what really thrills ya. Then, after you get the airspeed stuff worked out, make the AOA system talk to a 'spoiler' which will instantly activate, allowing the boat to settle back down to a safe attitude.
git er done...
"The MadRussian"

[sam]

I'd suggest a close look at Jim Russell's book and software: http://www.aeromarineresearch.com/index.html

It is intended for tunnel hulls, but works well enough for other types, esp hydros

[Bill Huson]

great idea . . . but . . .

Great idea! I assume you guys have a wind tunnel at your disposal? Good! Now go build a boat, and: A) put an AOA (angle of attack) indicator on it which will trigger a spoiler in the event the front end gets too-too high. B) find a location and put a pitot tube on it connected to a digital airspeed indicator. That way you'll know how fast it was really going when it started to blow over.

Speed across the water (ground speed) only counts for the kilo-record books. Hullspeed thru the air is what really thrills ya. Then, after you get the airspeed stuff worked out, make the AOA system talk to a 'spoiler' which will instantly activate, allowing the boat to settle back down to a safe attitude.
git er done...
"The MadRussian"

I do believe the stock rules disallow any *moveable* surfaces while underway.

[PopPop]

UNH Engineers

Be careful guys, there is a big difference between hydroplanes and tunnel boats. CSH is a hydroplane. Weigh the advise, herein, carefully!

[HRTV]

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[hydroracer25]

radical designs?

Dan,

Come on...many kneeldown boats have been perfected by some pretty smart people over the years and to make "radical" changes is NOT a good idea. I agree this is a very cool project and to have 3D models and run CFD will allow them to make improvements and changes in the future.

To suggest to make radical changes to and FEH or pro outboard, even a CSH could be dangerous at those speeds even with experienced drivers, let alone some students that may have never raced.

UNH students,

Stick with your plan for the CSH...as you gain experience, then you can look into other classes.

Mark

[T Chance]

1. From a monoplane to a single step hydroplane.
2. From the single step hydro to the 3-point hydro
3. From the 3-point to the 4-point
4. From the round nose hydro to the picklefork.
5. From kneeling to laying down (this could switch with #4)
6 From wood to composites.

Is this evolution of the hydro or a series of radical changes?

4-point makes me think of when I drove my D Konig at Lakeland on a brand new 4-point designed and built by Nick Marchetti. We tested it at a lake in Wally Adam's orange grove. 100 mph right over the top of whitecaps. But one of the worse boats I ever drove. It wouldn't turn in 40 acres. Even God didn't like it. He sent a tornado down and plucked it right off the top of Elmer Grade's station wagon. A farmer found it unhurt 3 miles from the highway.

[Bill Huson]

about those radical changes . . .

Once upon a time me'n J. Dave Augustine built a pair of wild looking CSH boats. They looked way cool. The boats had mondo acceleration coming out of a turn, but . . . somewheres around top end those buggers would go crazy! I even put Ian "I can drive anything" Augustine in the boat to no avail. Top end WATCHOUT! The boats quickly earned the nickname "Dangercraft." Many modifications were made. I even changed the bottom shape a tad, but nothing tamed those boats down. Shame because they would kick royal tail going through and coming out of a turn.

[csh2z]

Don't get too radical

Think about where we are in hydroplane evolution. Consider the fact that most of our boats run down the straightaway almost completely airborne. In the turns in many cases only the fin and trailing edge are in the water. It doesn't get much more efficient than that. There is and always will be incremental improvements in hull designs but many of the changes made from one boat to the next has more to do with the driver, motor & propellers that will be run on the boat. By the way, I would not recommend trying anything bigger or faster than a CSH. Even 70 mph is too fast to make mistakes. Good luck & if you need advice call Billy Allen & he can either answeer all of your questions or get you in touch with a number of experienced builders & designers that would be more than willing to help you guys out.
John Runne 2-Z

[Dave M]

If You Don't Push

The Envelope, things will never change. Where would ourt Country be if we simply were statisfied with the status quo......

I do agree radical changes should be tried out on smaller class boats first. However, in some cir***stances the radical designs work much more effeciently on faster classes. For example, you can make a 100MPH boat faster and unsafe in the straight-a-ways than any other boat out there. Then you tame it down with some wings or aerodynamic tricks to bring it safer again. These sort of spoilers won't work on slower classes, lets say under 80 or 90 MPH. But they will work on faster speeds.

Kevin Ladd and Rich Welch designed and built a couple boats about 20 years ago that had flaps on it. Intent was to reduce as much friction as possible down the straights, but when one pulled the lever, these flaps came up on the front and lowered the bow for the fin to bite, and turn. Otherwise you would need to back off the throttle or move forward and force the bow down. Great idea, but simply did not work at the speeds a B and a C are going.

Lets face it, we all know how to make a boat turn well, not many boats out there can't turn real well. The real advantages is to make a boat not lose any speed in the corners, and what little is lost, accelerate up to top speed the quickest once out of the apex of the corner. Races are won with E.T., not top end.

I say use your common sense, and revolutionize the industry. Don't stick to status quo.

Another opinion, build a boat that will go over rough water very well. Rough meaning near white cap conditions, and even small white caps. We could stand to have boats that would race on these water conditions, as there are a lot of places we can't race because of the rough water.

[Graham]

CSH Boats - UNH Group

You folks should get in touch with Mr. Bill Giles who has raced almost anything that runs on water. Further, Bill has been building boats for forty years and has seen/experienced the boat development evolution - so to speak. Bill giles email address is "giles3b@comcast.net. Lastly Bill lives in Taunton, MA which is approximately a 1 hour from the UNH area. Tell him Don Graham sent you. Have fun with your project. Let's go racing.

Sincerely,
Don Graham III

[HRTV]

Why don't we see any hulls like this coming out of the US boat shops for CSH & OSY

[hydroracer25]

from what I understand

Why don't we see any hulls like this coming out of the US boat shops for CSH & OSY

The type of race courses and water conditions that we race on in the US versus Europe are quite different and therefore the boats are designed to be optimal for each case.

Mark

[mercguy]

hmm........

Why don't we see any hulls like this coming out of the US boat shops for CSH & OSY

their boats must have a TON of lift to have the driver so far forward in the boats? It would be neat to try one out though. What I have found out (my opinion here) is that laydowns get over rough water much better than kneelers do and less chance of "falling out" also. But, learned "setup" is MUCH more critical in a laydown vs. kneeler, which is what seems to turn alot of people away from laydowns.

[mercguy]

Why don't we see any hulls like this coming out of the US boat shops for CSH & OSY

note: the 110 boat is not running a 302...........