S.O. National Meeting Agenda

[Blackhawkguy]

History 2

1. I was told when I started racing it would be three years before I was competitive

a. because it would take that long to get good at driving

b. it would take that long to ac***ulate enough parts to make a good motor

c. it would take that long to learn how to test, running three miles up the lake is not the way to test props

Rule #1 nobody sells you their best stuff even if they say they do, they have parts left to make another motor

Rule #2 it takes about three to five years before somebody figures out how to make a new motor run faster, remember the Billy hole, about how long was this after the new OMC A motors had been available did they figure this out, 4 years if I remember right, one year all to himself before he got caught.

Rule #3 people work way to hard at things that do nothing to help them go faster.

So whats my point, help new drivers to understand how not to waste their time on trick stuff that does not work, Get that stuff in the garage collecting dust out and sell it, it's no good to anybody just sitting there. New motors are a start but things like the water problem on the 302 cause problems but no one does a common sense fix to solve it, so you get unhappy customers.

I remember when you could not bore out A motors and people had to buy new blocks when thier bores got out of round, there was a common sense fix, 400 dollors for a block instead of 100 to bore it. It took how many years for the SORC to aprove the block to be bored next over? How many people did this this turn off to the sport?

It's things like this that cause people to quit or get upset, yes people seem to have a problem telling thier comissioners what they want, but the commisioners have to make timely descisions to correct problems. If you make a mistake then call a meeting in the middle of the season and correct it, but making no descision is worse than making a bad one.

OK enough on this subject, its taking a direction away from what this link is about.

[14-H]

No One Single Solution

Let me throw this out: There is no one single answer to the question of how to attract new members or where to direct them. You don't want to direct someone living in Region 12 to buy a Mercury. On the other hand, if that person lives in Michigan or New York, a Mercury is a perfectly acceptable answer (D or 25). In region 12, it might be a Yamato or a 45 or maybe a cracker box.

I would say that the two-fold answer to Issue No. 1, Membership, is first to get new people into a boat. That is a time-tested solution that works. The second part of the answer is to have a network of people who understand the sport and the area to direct people in the right way.

Unless we are willing to conduct a whole-sale deletion of classes and equipment, not only across categories, but also across organizations (APBA, NBRA, AOF and all the other outlaw groups) so that new people can be directed to the same classes or equipment no matter where they live, local organization at the club and regional level is always going to be important to direct people to the right stuff so that they can race on a regular basis.

BTW: Mike, how's the supplier/builder and equipment lists coming? We need to post them by October 31. Ed.

[csh2z]

Hey Blackhawkguy

1st- Happy birthday. You seem to make a lot of sense, obviously you've been around for quite some time and I probably know you. One question, "Who are you?" I don't know about anybody else but I'd appreciate it if you folks would identify yourselves on Hydroracer so we know who the heck we are talking to. thanking you in advance, John Runne 2-Z

[14-H]

ID's Please

I agree with John, most especially, since I need to know who to watch out for in the bar after the racing is over. lol.

John: That's Kerry Hamlin, former racer (last in a 25SSR, I believe) from Michigan, now an active Marine. He's a Brinkman-style Wild One so watch out! Ed.

[Blackhawkguy]

Sorry guys, yes it's Kerry Hamlin, I started my own business 10 years ago, did not plan on being gone this long, just got activated and sent to Kosovo for a year. I raced for Vic for about 8 years 25ssr and CSR, BMOD. I got three almost J drivers and am seriously thinking about getting back in a boat real soon. I ran the Grass lake race for three years and was the commodor of MHRA for a year, almost, was activated and sent to Hatie that time. Ed has a good handle on what needs to be done, being a lawyer type he understands breaking things down into smaller solveble issues. The funny thing (well not so funny) all these things are not any different than whats been brought up before many, many, many, times. It realy is hard to deal with on a national level because there is such a diference from one side of the country than the other, the west coast is a big hydro area, the east a little of both, along with the midwest. Stock racing is supposed to be grass roots racing, remember back when it started it was a bunch of local guys who formed a local boat club and raced their pleasure boats againts each other, then they started racing against other clubs. We have the way we do bussiness rooted in our past, how we start races, how the races are run etc...etc... Why do we race two days, because thats how we have done it for years. There have been several realy good points brought up and on another link (how do we grow the sport), some realy good ideas about helping people get into the sport. I remember my first nationals in Saranac Lake NY being in the Jersey pit area. None of those people knew my family from anything, a guy named Tom Nucio was over rigging my boat when he looked at it and saw all the stuff that was wrong with it,he did not ask just said hey this is not right, let me show you how to fix it. Another thing they did in that area was hand down A motors to the newer drivers as guys moved into bigger classes , they did not hold them for ransome. New motors sound good but they seem to be a short term fix, because new motors become old motors eventually. Not sure of the answers buch doing nothing but complaining on this web site is not going to fix it, sounds like the just plain take the bull by the horns and get involved and the member ship will grow one new member at a time.

[RICK BIRD]

This guy obviously is not from Bakersfield. Seems like that's where all the left coast crazys come from. Wait a minute, it that where Rick Bird is from??? lol. Ed.

ED
NOW NOW. I am from the central valley the best in cali. THE GREEN BELT.
It does not matter were your from pepole just dont know what we do. youknow i travel with a open trailer and i get ask all the time what are they.lol most think they airplanes. thats why i haul all open so pepole see it and they see with me side show BOB i call the tralier. and i give as much info as i can web sites address and i let them touch climb and take photos.

[csh2z]

I remember Saranac, the good and the bad. Nuccio is a good friend of mine, I've busted up alot of his stuff over the years, and I'm still alive! I think he feels sorry for me or something. Anyway GET IN A BOAT, YOU CAN'T STOP YOURSELF! I agree, it's a good time to take some bold steps. John 2-Z

[Big Don]

Don’t kid your self, this sport is about money. I don’t think Ron was saying it wasn’t... Just saying that it does take money and unless you are willing to spend it you are not going to race any motor sport. Yes there are a few exceptions to this but if you don’t have the money and are not willing to spend it, you are not going to win at anything. So it does take a special person to drop $5000.00/$10,000.00 or more on a hobby.



But it also takes a lot of hard work to win and most are not willing to do that. Ron, you should know that being a retired teacher. Kids are for the most part lazy and not willing to do what it takes. My oldest, Donny, his buddies think he’s nuts working on stuff in the garage every night. The kids racing are the ones that are not Lazy...most of them.



You can interview 100 ex-racers and the reasons they quit are going to be in no particular order. Too expensive (I put that one first just for Ron ), too much travel, un-safe, not enough time, not fun anymore, too many politics, can’t get my stuff running fast, tired of being beat by the same guys, not enough boat time, had a family, too many other interest, kid wanted a ski-doo, got pregnant... you get the point.



For every person that says they went to tunnels for their own personal reasons, there are just as many that won’t go to tunnels for those reasons.

DON't try and make Stock racing tunnels. We will go away. That is not a knock on tunnel boat racers. I got a guy to buy a 45 1 year ago because I thought that was the best fit for him. It's just not for everyone.



Time on the race course is very valid, and if we ever chose to go 45 racing that would be the #1 reason for it. Time on the water, no other reason. Let's figure out how to get three heats a day per class.

People get hurt racing tunnels also. Is it safer? That could be argued until…



I have to agree with Bill III… we need racers. If someone wants to race there is equipment out there. NOT SAYING we don’t need new equipment, because we do, but are you guys kidding yourselves? You think when the new HOTROD is done they are going to be lining up off the street to buy this? How many new D engines have been sold to new racers?



Ed Runne don’t get mad at me. I love what you are doing but… If we don’t get the current HotRod racers some parts we are going to loose them. Hopefully we are not counting on them to buy a new engine because they can’t get current parts. Don’t know how many of them can afford to go out and buy 2/3 new engines.



Like John Runne keeps saying, we need a plan on what we want and I don’t know if this group will ever agree on that.



Not being negative, just being a realist (I think).

John Runne lets see that proposal.

[Ron Hill]

Soap Box 15

Truth is, the stock 15 four stroke is PRETTY heavy, and much taller than the current race motor...Half the hydros I've seen won't float with the driver in the back, right now (With the ENGINE STOPPED)... Ernie and I just think a whole new boat is needed....

Wider than an A Hydro, with some kind of after planes to keep her from sinking when sitting....

My new Russell Outboards will be tested this winter.....

Mentors are needed....

I loaned a complete 45 SS rig to John Lane...he ran it at Indio, Long Beach and San Diego...I offered it to him for Bakersifeld, Sept 30-October 1, but he'll be out of town...Any Capsuled trained driver that would like to run our back up boat contact me...no charge for the loan...Same price John paid...

[STEVE FRENCH]

Ron,
I bumped my Thread from our work on the Honda 4-stroke 2004/2005

19P

[FL47F]

Success in Boat Racing:

Points to Ponder

What you know 400
Money 300
Time 225
Who you know 169
Motivation 127

[daveracerdsh]

Great thread

Its sure nice to see the passion that most people have for the sport of outboard hydroplane racing. I think the main reason people race is for a chance to have some fun and be around their friends..and of course do some racing. That being said, we as an organization are never going to grow unless we make it far easier for new people to get involved in the sport. The only way to accompish this is by having new equipment readily availible. Yah, when you compare circle boat racing to almost any other motor sport we lose out....Yet, it still has it's good points. As others have pointed out, we only have a few motors availible for people to purchase...the Yamato 302, Mercury A, Tohatusu D motor, reproduction 44 XS, and hopfully soon a new Hot Rod. Even then, a new racer faces a daunting task to put a rig together....He or she has to locate a motor from one source, boat from another, trailer from yet a third, saftey equipment from a 4th supplier, props from a 5th supplier, and so on down the line. If you were a complete novice, would you want to go through with all of that to race? Isnt it easier to just go to one place and buy a jet ski or a go-cart? It sure seems simple to me....Somehow, someway, we need to somhow present a re packaged product to the public...where they can walk in, write a check, and be racing the next day. How do we do this? I honestly have no idea...just some food for thought.

[crankbearing]

A package deal

Good post Dave. I have brought that to the floor many times. there a many companies out there that will buy the debt of a new package and then make it available to lease to new owner. I have looked into this several times all it takes are serial numbers on the boat and motor.

This would allow us to set up a dealer base across the country to resell the goods off the showroom floor and be in competition with the sea-doo's etc..

Now the problem of how we get the package to the dealers floor and all involved make some $$$ to do so.

I have always said that this needs to be a business plan not a growth plan You are so right having to talk to 10 different people to get on the water is a pain and most newcomers will loose interest very fast.

The hard part comes with a distribution plan if you are going to set up a dealer with a package to sell. he will want to make 30-40 points on his sale. With the times the way they are it is harder and harder to make $$$ in any industry. How do you market a product with advertising through a dealers show room floor who already has ridiculous credit lines with his current stock.
One train of thought is you could put the stuff on consignment and send someone in to train the sales floor on what they are selling along with the sale includes a free one year APBA / CBF membership and a list of people in that dealers area for that person to call to work with to get started but everything would be in the package when the customer picked it up. you could offer a commission based system for the real estate used on the dealers floor and then you could always play the after sales purchases from this customer and any other racers in that dealers area. Oil, plugs, parts etc... create a discount system with the dealer for parts etc... to all racers displaying a membership card.

Now the supplier whomever it may be would need to create a discount package for req'd parts to make the thing feesable to sell as a package.

1. Who will supply the boats
2. What motor will be used
3. Prop req'd
4. Safety equipment
5. Hardware etc..
6. Set up tools
7. Trailer
8. Fuel cans/oil
9. sheer pins
10. instruction manual
11. APBA / CBF manual
12. List of suppliers
13. help from all of us racers in that customers area
14. Knowledgable salespeople who are interested in selling the product within the current guidelines knowing that there commission will be less then if they were selling a seadoo.


One price for all of the above with commission etc factored in. who do we get to create the sales program and run with the idea. There are many ways to approach this package deal but I think it needs to be through a dealer network. We have marine dealers who are racers, this should be where we start to experiment if they are willing to try.

Regards,

[G Stillwill]

Dave this is what the Hotrod company plans are down the road. You will beable to buy everything at one place. The great part of this is the outfit will be competitive right out of the box because it will be set up by racers that know what works on that boat and motor as far as props go. Now all a new person has to do is learn to become a driver but will take out the learning curve of trying to set up a boat , finding a good prop and so on.