S.O. National Meeting Agenda

[Lights]

Sorc

Ar you hearing use????????

Steve & Mark

I agree with you on the cooling issue on the 302. I went through a whole season overheating motors (almost every race). I've tested almost every possible set-up and prop combinations and can never get near the 1/2" mark. For next year I've actually ordered a new boat to try and help with this situation. I've talked to several stock guys and they all agree with the cooling problem we have. I would be all for a solution for the cooling issue. The auxillary cooling pickup would be a cheap and easy solution

Erik Petersen (15-N)

[Brian10s]

Other thoughts for the SORC

Here are some general ideas on improvements to our sport:

1. get rid of all sharp points on the front of all boats. No I'm not talking about the return of the conventional but round off all pickles and runabout points. Increase safety by reducing the risk of injury.
2. the UIM has already mandated all hydros have composite cockpit sides and to a certain point decks. Why are we so far behind? Why can't we set up something like the OPC's and have a standard spec for cockpit sides and all new construction must comply. Then get somebody to talk to Dupont (the inventors of Kevlar) or somebody else about manufacturing kevlar sheets that the average racer can screw onto his existing cockpitsides to make them compliant.
3. instead of trying to create new rules for restricting the setup on boats (ie the A tuck crap) why don't we fix the loophole in out existing height rule. Right now, because of how we measure height, we have a kickout rule, not a height rule. If you kick out, you have to go down to be under the height rule. Why can't we figure out a way that the same would apply to tuck. You should only be able to be at max height at dead flat parrellel. You go out, you go down and if you go in, you go down. Let the inspectors figure out how, you know they can do it easily.
4. Figure out fuel - right now we need a chemist on staff at every local race just to do all the test. Maybe take a page out of nascar and see about one fuel & oil supplier for every racesite in APBA. A national contract for one supplier to bring the gas and oil to the site and all racers would buy what they wanted at the beach. If you wanted extra for testing, you bring an extra empty gas can. If everybody was forced to run Turbo Blue and use Merc oil (as examples) - that make fuel inspection rather easy. (This is not my idea just one that I heard that makes sence)
5. we have ref test, inspector test, scorer test and now a J test. However, we put drivers who may or may not ever read the rule book in our turnboats. Why can't we have a basic rules test that every driver must pass in order to get their APBA card. Could set it up as a link to the APBA website and let the computer run it. Simple pass/ fail. If you fail, you keep taking it until you pass. If someone doesn't have a computer or the internet, they call APBA and get one mailed to them. This way every driver has a refresher of basic racing rules and rule changes each year.
6. a process to keep the flow of new motors coming into the sport.
7. a process to keep the flow of new drivers coming into the sport.
8. a process to learn from our mistakes on why drivers leave our sport (could be as simple as a exit interview that is sent out to those that were members one year and not the next. Some might not respond but maybe we will get some new info/ direction from those that do.

[Steve Johnson]

A three boat race can be Fan tastic

These are great post and this thread without a doubt is going to spark some much needed input and opinions. Let me start by saying has anyone ever wonder why we race for two days? In my opinion the local clubs should start to take a firmer stand on how many classes run each day and only choose the strongest classes available, yes this will leave many folks sitting on the beach but then again three boats in a class is not racing.

Someone mention this a few months ago in a post that I do not remember the title but the basis of the thread was we need to start the process of weeding out the three boat classes and only run the strong ones. How long are we going to try and make everyone happy?

Will this mean the drivers of the weak classes will be out? Yes and no again I go back to my statement that three boats in a class is not racing! If I were a spectator I would rather see three heats of CSH with twelve or thirteen boats in each class then sit through a day long event and watch three boats go around in circles with one guy pulling up the rear due to motor problems which basically leaves you with a two boat race.

My point is its time for some tough love in Stock Outboard racing many might not agree but the days of trying to make everyone happy must come to an end and fast! The program needs to fast paced and action packed.

Every year this same old topic comes up, what are we going to do? And every year it’s the same old race day, sun rise to sun set tons of classes back and repeat.

My idea of the ideal race weekend is a Saturday only event with ASH 20SSH CSH DSH or FEH same runabout classes. Don’t like the line up don’t come.

This is my opinion you dont have to agree or like it.

Any one complaining about a three boat race shoud see Joe Franck, Rod Terzinski And Me going at in DMR . Even in a large feild race there is mostly A TWO BOAT RACE that is the focus of the crowd. Announce the race properly and two boats going hammer and tongs at it is THE show. Good thread ,I just wanted to give a different perspective from a spectator point of view.

[RLR]

SOA Agenda

Steve,
As one who has been announcing for more than 25 years, I agree with you that some three boat races have been some of the most exciting races that I've ever called. However, let me make a comment about what we both know. If I go to a sprint car race to spectate, do I enjoy a four car race or a 24 car race more? Obvisous answer, and no different from the specators of our love. I know for a fact that many of the drivers also feel the same way when 3 or 4 boats are running.

I go back to co-ordianting your races within the clubs local. I cannot count the number of times I looked at schedules and saw 2 or 3 races within a couple hundred miles of one another. We are not the lone man in the garden and should look at doing regional type races 3 or 4 times a year and get the best turnout possible for a sponsor and then we may have a chance to get a couple of the spectators intertested in going fast and turning left.

We are club racing and hope that we have few spectators. If we could draw the spectators, we can get sponsorships, if we have sponsorships, we can pay the bills and find other avenues of revenue streams. Without support by a sponsor we will continue to run club races paying the bills from entries and having to put 6 or 8 classes on the water with fewer boats than we should.


Ray

[STEVE FRENCH]

Steve, I made a proposal for an external water pick up for the 302 last year and it got tabled. Didn't even get a chance for a vote. I wanted this change so I could buy a NEW 302 and not burn it up testing wheels. Insted I got a Used 102 because of it's ability to get better water. I think if the SO MEMBERS got to vote on it. Like the mod members get to it would have passed. That is another subject that I think needs to change. The SO MEMBERS should get to vote on changes.


Just my $.02
Mark

Perhaps a preconvention vote/pole/list on these issues and other concerns could be presented to the commissioners for their consideration a few weeks/months? before the meeting.

They can't read our minds....speak-up...be heard!

Be heard ------NOW!........ Pry that muzzle off (with your back paws)......exercise your freedom of speech............crawl out of the mushroom cave and shake off the dung/poop!........

How about a list of Commisioners and how to contact if not through this thread. (I gotta believe most monitor this web site........ )
Gotta give these guys credit... Not sure it's a job I'de want............


John, is this thread going they way you originally asked? Appoligies if it gets side tracked by venting racers such as myself. Hope your able to get the jist of what's on folks minds and edit out the unrelated stuff.........
Have you got an outline of what can and cannot be considered so far?

19P

[TardBoy]

Lets not forget about the Tohatsu and what a great package it is. Are there gonna be any changes to the rules?

[DougMc]

Last year I collected up as many commissioner emails as I could and emailed them to lobby for a proposal. Two of them responded back, so I think they do consider concerns and ideas suggested to them.

[14-H]

Break it Down

The only way to tackle a Gordian Knot like this is to break the problem into the various issues and then address those issues individually. They appear to me to be as follows:

1) Attracting New Members;
2) Making Equipment available (old or new);
3) Running the Race;
4) Pageantry (awards, ceremony, the show, recognition, etc.);
5) Class Structure;
6) Flexibility;
7) Officials.

These various areas cover just about all of the issues facing power water craft racing. Issues about the form of governance are also important but not as much as those above. But you absolutely must have an understanding about how the various areas of the country work currently because what will work in Ohio or Michigan will not necessarily work in New England, Region 5, NBRA/AOF country or the West (and even the West has differences; they run Cracker Box in Region 11 & 12 and vintage unlimiteds in Region 10).

I said a year ago that the biggest issue facing our form of racing was the number of races. We now have so many that participation is an issue. So, the next issue to tackle is not race-site promotion, but new driver promotion. In that vein, how many Stock Outboard Commissioners fulfilled their pledge? This (the pledge to put someone new in a boat) is one that all of us need to make and fulfill.

More later. Ed.

[PopPop]

gordian knot

[QUOTE=14-H]The only way to tackle a Gordian Knot like this is to break the problem into the various issues and then address those issues individually. They appear to me to be as follows:

1) Attracting New Members;
2) Making Equipment available (old or new);
3) Running the Race;
4) Pageantry (awards, ceremony, the show, recognition, etc.);
5) Class Structure;
6) Flexibility;
7) Officials.QUOTE]
Ed has a good point or points. Lets devide our discussion into areas of focus.

[Ron Hill]

I Wanted To Add Something But Forgot....

.....I have a 17 year old who wants to start racing. Ernie Dawe gave me his son's C Hydro... Darrell Sorenson loaned us a C Runabout...I bought a used 302, because, quite frankly, I don't know how to time a motor, as I never wanted to learn and, at 62 1/4, don't plan to learn.

My son really wants to run our back up 45, and I've told him he can, but I want him to get some time in a kneeler.....but IF we burn that SUM ***** DOWN because it doesn't water, at the legal height, I'll drill the hole larger and just get DQ'd....Ernie Dawe has burned up...Tammy Dawe... has burned up a bunch of 20 SS (Model 80's)...these last few years....like 8 or more.....

What is the big deal about letting someone MODIFY thier water pick up so they don't burn their motor down???? Remember Tammy Dawe on fire in the Propeller Magazine...

10-S said round all the points off boats, i ASSUME HE MEANS RUNABOUT AND HYDROS.......HELL YES, get rid of these daggers. Get rid of outboard fins on runabouts...Add side (SIGN BOARD) heights on runabouts.

Require cockpits to be higher than the driver's shoulders when in a normal kneeling position or a minimum of 24" high and at least the strength of 3/4 plywood...

Attracting members isn't hard.....convincing them to go kneel down racing is hard...KEEP THEM IS HARDER.

IDEAS FOR MOTORS:

The Stock VP will stock: (NOT AT HIS EXPENSE---HISTORICAL SOCIETY HAS BREAD)...

1. NEW MERCURY J/AXS/A (Race ready by whoever knows how to build them..have it dynoed and broken in, ready to race).

2. A new Evinrude and Johnson A, by...DeFebo, Runne or others...broken in race race, NEW

3. A Hot Rod A or B or whatever it will be... ready to race..

Chairman to advertise these motors on E-Bay, daily at cost plus 20%.

Require, the motors be sold to ABPA STOCK RACING MEMBERS....(Include the membership with the sale price of the motors)...

There is interest.....the last STOCK OUTBOARD PROP I sold on E-Bay had over 400 viewers...I've sold 9 nose cones for Fat "C"...Last Cone Sold had almost 400 views...WHO KNOWS WHAT A FAT "C" IS???

The problem is: Racing Boats ain't easy....I can't do engine work...lucky for us, Chad can do his own...But we use the Jim Rucks, Mike Wienandts, John Lanes, and Bill Curtiss of this world to help us....PROPS ARE DIFFICULT...

When I was a kid, it bothered me to sell our motors to others, I figured they should build their own.....trouble was, I didn't know they COULDN'T build their own....For many, many years, my dad built motors for people in California, well Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Florida, Texas...Washingon....He built eveyone the best he could...

The Stock Division is basically a STORE with no inventory...(Don't sell USED JUNK, as we don't need people in the sport to beat....we need people in the sport to race with)...

OH, now I remember what I wanted to talk about...

High Points:

Screw the AVERAGE..It was my idea, I actually got it on the ballot about 1962....because in 1961 I won like 17 DU races and didn't get High Point...So, I came up with an idea so I could win...I've fought against it ever since...High Point should be the guys the races the most, beats the most people....How cool would NASCAR be if they told you in February who had the best average???? If you want best average, add that...BUT HIGH POINTS SHOULD BE HIGH POINTS.

Give points by number of boats beat in each heat, give one point per boat...give one point per lap.....(25 lap maximum)...

BUT HERE is the ZINGER......Have races, that meet certain qualifications, be double, triple and quadruple points...I ain't been to Grass Lake, I ain't been to Loch Heaven....a lot of places I've only heard about....But some of these places deserve double points, at least, maybe triple...The requirements for double points and so on would be posted and you'd know way ahead of time what was up..

Could be single point race Saturday, triple Sunday....or triple Saturday, and single Sunday....

We need a SOAP BOX DERBY CLASS...that will come later.

[jsilvestri]

This is not the appropiate thread for me to talk to much about the 302's pumping water, but let me say this. I've been running the 302 in CSH for about five to six years now and have found that pumping water can be a challenge depending on prop, set-up, boat, etc... However, take a look at how you have the water routed and the size of hose you are using to allow the water to discharge. Changes to these things will make a big difference.

[csh2z]

302 water

To my knowledge it is permissable to direct water to the intake, as long as 1) There is no modification to the motor and 2) whatever system you use it is not attached to the motor. I've made it work well enough to run even with the bottom. The 1/2" height rule in my opinion hurt the development of the 302 as a long course motor, because we can no longer jack the motor up.John 2-Z

[Mark.Wheeler]

J/AXS motors

APBA currently has J/AXS motors available for immediate shipment. Contact patty@apba-racing.com for details.

[jsilvestri]

It is my understanding that the port timing/height is what the major difference is between the 102 and 302 internally. And, this difference is what gives the 102 the big top end. I'm no motor guy, but that is my understanding. A height rule of 3/4 would have leveled out the playing feild as well as make sure everyone is pumping all of the time.

[BP125V]

Thanks Ed

The only way to tackle a Gordian Knot like this is to break the problem into the various issues and then address those issues individually. They appear to me to be as follows:

1) Attracting New Members;
2) Making Equipment available (old or new);
3) Running the Race;
4) Pageantry (awards, ceremony, the show, recognition, etc.);
5) Class Structure;
6) Flexibility;
7) Officials.

These various areas cover just about all of the issues facing power water craft racing. Issues about the form of governance are also important but not as much as those above. But you absolutely must have an understanding about how the various areas of the country work currently because what will work in Ohio or Michigan will not necessarily work in New England, Region 5, NBRA/AOF country or the West (and even the West has differences; they run Cracker Box in Region 11 & 12 and vintage unlimiteds in Region 10).

I said a year ago that the biggest issue facing our form of racing was the number of races. We now have so many that participation is an issue. So, the next issue to tackle is not race-site promotion, but new driver promotion. In that vein, how many Stock Outboard Commissioners fulfilled their pledge? This (the pledge to put someone new in a boat) is one that all of us need to make and fulfill.

More later. Ed.

we typically try to solve all the world's problems here on HR.net. Solve issue #1 on Ed's list and 95% of the other problems go away. Let's keep focused here. PROMOTION, PROMOTION, PROMOTION.

Bill III