S.O. National Meeting Agenda

[26V]

Current number of Stock and Mod drivers by High points classes ( Pulled from the APBA web site High points list )

Have I missed any classes normaly run at Stock and Mod races ? We Region 7 normaly run OSY and sometimes service/ race C classes.

AMR= 13 ASR= 57

BMR= 9 BSR= 28

CMR= 15 CSR= 75

DMR= 40 DSR= 13

FER= 26 25SSR= 42

FAR= 8

FAH= 20

AMH= 16 ASH= 79

BMH= 38 BSH= 37

CMH= 56 CSH= 113

DMH= 59 DSH= 39

25MH= 28 25SSH= 35

FEH= 44 20SSH= 90

[26V]

QUote from Brian
==
On travel, what would it take to figure out how to set up each region a home track? 1 racesite that you could go back to 3-4 times a year? By being there more than once a season, you would develop a fan base and maybe a few new racers from the area.
==

How much easyer would it be to attract local sponsors if the race was run 2 - 4 times ? And the posiblity of attracting new racers would be much easyer if a race was close and they could run without the travel time and expense. I personaly find the time harder to get than the money to travel with.

[Blackhawkguy]

Some things to remember, when you try to fix your future always look to the past for answers and why's and why not's

S.O. member ship in 1978-1,300
Michigan alone had around a dozen boat clubs
You could run a race in the middle of nowhere and it would draw 150 boats+ Columbiaville was a perfect example, we raced there three times a year
The problem facing clubs is breaking even (you still need a little profit for expenses) with the dwindling membership numbers, it has stabilized since around 1990
In 1978 there where no jet skis, nintendo, yadda, yadda, yadda to draw the attention of young people, if you lived on a lake and wanted to go fast a race boat was the only answer.

Just work on making what classes and races you have fun, enjoyable to attend and the membership will grow as much as it can. Have a plan, excecute the plan and have fun, there is no money in racing just enjoyment. This would not be the first plan tried, there have been many

[csh2z]

I've been involved on and off, in the politics of S.O. for almost 30 years. You're right there have been plans before. We still have many of the issues today that we had 25-30 years ago. I don't believe that the way we do business currently will ever work. It seems throughout all this time very little has changed. Every couple of years we create a new "five year plan" to save what is left of the sport. I am not an advocate of wholesale change, our "product" is not bad but it does need some work. Much of our problem stems from satisfying our own needs now rather than looking at how our actions will effect the big picture. Of course, that would mean we have to have a big picture! We don't. We have many very intelligent people in our sport. Many of which are entrepenuers. Would any of us try to run a business like this? Could that business succeed? The one thing I've gotten out of all these posts and discussions over the years is that as a group, we don't even know what we want! There is no common goal, vision or philosophy of how to keep this thing, we love so much, to grow for others to enjoy in the future. Back to work, John 2-Z

[HRTV]

I've been involved on and off, in the politics of S.O. for almost 30 years. You're right there have been plans before. We still have many of the issues today that we had 25-30 years ago. I don't believe that the way we do business currently will ever work. It seems throughout all this time very little has changed. Every couple of years we create a new "five year plan" to save what is left of the sport. I am not an advocate of wholesale change, our "product" is not bad but it does need some work. Much of our problem stems from satisfying our own needs now rather than looking at how our actions will effect the big picture. Of course, that would mean we have to have a big picture! We don't. We have many very intelligent people in our sport. Many of which are entrepenuers. Would any of us try to run a business like this? Could that business succeed? The one thing I've gotten out of all these posts and discussions over the years is that as a group, we don't even know what we want! There is no common goal, vision or philosophy of how to keep this thing, we love so much, to grow for others to enjoy in the future. Back to work, John 2-Z

Great post John and this one says it all, why would a young man want to invest all his hard earned money in a sport with no future or goals, sure like everyone else says its a great ride and the friendships that you develop are second to none but that just doesn’t cut it these days when you are trying to promote a sport.

Why do kids jump at the chance to race go karts, answer is simple most of them dream of becoming a professional race car driver and many of them will reach that goal by climbing through the ranks of midgets and dirt track cars actually winning money and many will go onto get full time professional rides in NASCAR / Indy and IRL.

Since boat racing has no professional level classes where you can actually feed your family and make a living at it why risk your life in the smaller classes just to keep going around in circles in for 30 years and have nothing to show for it but a photo album.

The problem goes way beyond just Stock Outboard and actually covers the entire spectrum of boat racing. I don’t have the answers but perhaps the dream has already been lost since there is really nowhere to advance in boat racing. OPC, Inboards yeah right! There still is no money and you are just going in circles for a few hundred folks if that.

Sorry to be so negative but I watch OPC go right down the drain here on the east coast and I really fear that in a number of years Stock Outboard will suffer the same fate but just limb along on life support while the die hards try to hold on.

Don’t get me wrong if I didn’t love the sport of boat racing I would never dump my hard earn money into this web site for everyone to enjoy but you have to ask yourself how much longer will you guys just go in circles for absolutely no return at the end of day. Yeah I know what’s the definition of Stock Outboard racing but come on guys wake up this is 2006 no matter what you call it folks just don’t have the disposable income anymore to race around in circles for nothing.

[sam]

Some people want one thing, some want another, no one knows what most want. Sounds like a poll of the Stock Membership is in order. There is no point in chosing a direction if it is not the direction most racers want.

Its too bad the Stock Comission can't require members to fill out a poll when they renew their membership.

[RLR]

SOA Agenda

May the announcer from the Title Series(PRO Division) have a say.

I know that from my days on the West Coast the great folks out there had no sponsors so everything was done with entry fees. Therefore we started at 10am and finished whenever, most times we had to be off the water by 5. What that did was put 20+ classes from J to Inboards at some races to OPC at most and most with 3-6 boats, although not all.

When I ws in Illinois racing Mod's the IOA(Indiana Outboard), Hawkeye, and Illinois Power Boat always co-ordinated races. We each had a couple of courses that we were invited back to each year and we went off and raced with the Michigan and Wisconsin folks at different times. I remember elims in all classes at a great little race course in Huntington, Indiana and at most races we had elims in 5-7 classes. Now it is three and your out on the water. We will not draw new blood to race against two other drivers.

Now I read about a race in Michigan with one in Southern Wisc. and one over in PA. I know that each club has to do races on their own, however if we could get together and have at least 5 races each year in one spot when there are no other races in the division within say 400 miles, I think everyone would get a bigger bang for their buck. If entry fees are paying for the race each club should have one big one and the rest can share in the proceeds.

Say what you want about the Title Series, but we run 6-8 races per year and draw about 85-100 entries at all races. Nothing more fun than to watch 12-250h and 12 500 runabouts all headed for the first turn. We try to set them for the most part central US. Do we race other areas yes, but we see other clubs inviting Pro classes and they can race locally as well. We run a 4 hour show, with luck, each weekend day with half the classes Saturday and half on Sunday. We run three heats of racing so everyone gets time in the boat and always have a paid test day on Friday with appropriate time on Saturday and Sunday. I do not know of any better system. However, we must work continually to try and help new people into the support and make it something that they want to be involved in.

Look at your classes, figure out what clubs can run together, set the schedules accordingly, and combine classes where you can.

Greatest sport in the world, but we are watching it slippppppppp away.

Ray

[Blackhawkguy]

Some realy good points guys, the gentleman from the US Title Series brought up a very good point that I had thought of yesterday, the west coast guys to put on a race have to run several catagories to be able to pay for the sanction, it's not unusual to see OPC, Stock, MOD, Inboard, and whatever else they need to run. The midwest is and has been spoiled for some time, we are the only area that can run stock only races and be able to put on a race. When you talk about the stock commision dealing with these issues the problem becomes what is a issue for one area is not for another so it's hard for them to come up with a plan that helps everybody. Motor availability is definatly a must, although when I started you went to a race, found a motor for sale and bought it, thats all there was, no motors available off the shelf. What I see on this web sight are the names of the kids of the kids I raced boats againts, they are the core families. People come and go all the time. Good race sights, as the one gentleman said maybee a couple of races that involve the region, this has been done before also, Dayton was a race that several clubs working together put on for some time. A regional race coarse would be nice, but water has become so valuable that it's hard to find a sight willing to put up with the lake being closed down for more than one weekend. I found a beutifull place in Battle Creek called Eagle Lake, private, owned by the state, protected, the day I whent there it was blowing 25 knots of wind and not a wave to be seen, problem was the park ranger would not let the trailers on the beach, and the other was durring the summer it's a swim beach so it's busy on the weekends. Spring and fall races would be fine once you got through the buracracy. Finding race sights that are good and can be visited multiple times would be nice. Anyway a plan for all is a good idea, just not sure you can taylor it to everybody, without a little tweaking here and there.

[STEVE FRENCH]

I'm in this hobby/sport (business?) cause I enjoy it and the people (ALL of them!).
I've raced Moto-cross, Street-stocks+modifieds/dirt track-10 years, Snowmobles 1967-88....Just sold my 85 Mustang GT drag car (To buy a nasty ol' Dodge "Dullie" diesel farm truck to pull my race BOAT trailer-long hauls)......Etc.
NONE... of them gave me the "GRIN-FACTOR" that I get from from the WHOLE-PICTURE..... of boat racing...........
Granted, dirt track paid enough to keep tires on the car. And have'n 500 HP sideways while lead'n into a corner, ROOST'N dirt on the fool try'n to pass ya on the outside....... is the ultamite adrenalin FIX..!!!
Ah, but in one turn I've seen $30K just a smoldering pile of JUNK against the wall..........and in a couple years/months NO-ONE remembers your name.............

Return on my investment?-------Mension in a conversation you compete in any other motor sport,--you might see someone shrug their shoulders.
Mension you race/raced boats----------you got their attension
Or, Seeing the grin on my ol' buddie.. Archie Lewis' face when I ask if he'd crew for me.....Or chase me test'n with his Hot-Rod on my 2nd Altralite..
See'n Tyler Rice run well with my A-motor. Or his 8-year old Brother Travis ask'n if he can help me....
Or, help'n toss a first time winner (age 8-78) in the lake!
Dana's 2 yr old Daughter testing Her new mini Z-Craft (Dad powered) at Franklin 2005.........PRICELESS!
Talk'n for hours with Frank Zorkin at the Ocoee Dinor..... or Billy Simmons at Lock Haven........ or any dedicated retired driver that still fallows/donates time to this game............

I'm here cause I want'a be..........

If I was look'n for a return, I'd buy/fix-up/sell (flip) old houses.

I work harder in one weekend of RACE"N/test'n than I EVER do turn'n wrenches on rusty Postal trucks at my 40-56 hour job!

I saw on Walt Long's trailer a saying........"On this trailer is a disease for which there is NO cure"....

Since my Dad, "Doc" French (Vet) traded treatment on a farmer's cow for an old water pipe framed, chain spit'n, go-kart for my Brother and me back in 1965,....race'n has cost me several relationships,two houses, broken bones-including two vertebrae (T11+T12), pins in my right foot, knee surgery, hundreds of stitches/scars and bruises, and now arthritus.......
Obsessive compulsive?------YEP.........
Nuck'n futs?------------you bet'cha!.........
But If I live to see 90 and a race needs a flag man-------push my wheel chair to the start line,.... hand me the flags and watch me ..... GRIN

19P "The NEED.....For SPEED".....GOING FASSSSSST.....to ....WHITNEY POINT!!!..SEEE-YAAAAA---in my--WAKE!

[Blackhawkguy]

That's one of the points I am making, people who whant to race will race, they will find a motor, find a boat, find a way to do it. The issue turns to sustaining the number of people involved so when a club puts on a race they are able to pay the bills. One of the things I don't think people take into consideration is all of the other forms of racing we use as a compairison are dictatorships, they do not have a voting membership to descide the destiny of the sport, they make descisions based on turning a profit, making money period, you don't like it go somewhere else. By having a voting membership every person in the sport is involved thus it takes a little more time to get the wheels moving, sometimes this is good sometimes this is bad. The good is nothing to drastic happens to fast, the bad is sometimes when you do need something drastic to happen it does not happen to fast. Being involved in local government has given me a new perspective on how things work. A village council has the ability to realy get things done because it's the smallest form of gorvernment and deals with small isues in only their community, kinda like a small boat club verses the SORC. The local clubs have the ability to run races the way they see fit for their area, reguardless of what the SORC does or does not do. The only thing is making sure the sanction is filled out to reflec that so the insurence covers what ever they are doing. Once the sanction is completed and aproved it becomes allot harder to add a class or an event to the weekend. Even if the SORC is not getting things going as you would like, people on the local level can still put on great races, work on all the things discused here ove the last few days and maybee develope a model to present to the SORC of how to succeed in puttting on good races. Believe me all the bad races have just about been weeded out by now, they did not survive becuse people did not want to go to them.


Remember talk is cheap,action cost money

[DougMc]

Great Post Dana,

I brought up point #6 years ago when I asked what happens at the end of local races other then folks wave goodbye pack up and leave. If I were a new racer looking around at the end of the day I would ask my self where is everyone going ? I just drove 4/5 maybe 8 hours to your event and all I get is a wave and see ya next time buddy. The awards ceremony should be mandatory at every race, make the guy feel like something other then just saying see ya next time

Good idea. I liked the awards ceremony at the Winter Nationals. Didn't win so I didn't get an award, but still very fun. Also like the awards ceremony at Jesup, GA races as well. I like the photos from the European boat racing sites where they have the award ceremony. Such photos at local races could be given to local newspapers for publishing.

[DougMc]

Reason; to give this motor a chance to compete with the 80 and 102.
The 302 has an inherent disadvantage in abillity to "pump" water at this height with any kind of competative prop.

Seems you never had the honor of Billy Allen passing you with his 302 on the outside in CSH.

[STEVE FRENCH]

Seems you never had the honor of Billy Allen passing you with his 302 on the outside in CSH.

No, but he has SMOKED my 25MOD a couple times on the out-side in BMH!
At Ocoee Spring Nationals 2005(?), His steer fin packed the front of my rig going into turn two and my rig stood straight up. Thought for sure it was swim time!! Somehow the rig layed back down and finished!
Ton of fun running with Billy!

...I did manage to blow-over at the end of that day in AMH and get 18 stitches ..from the prop ...."In the Butt-tox" (Forest Gump) !!!!!!!

But with your post (and what I said before), Billy IS one of those with the time, resourses (Goller), and a prop builder/sponcer (Dewald) to make the 302 work!

Quote from previous post;
More al-cha-hall enhanced thoughts;
With the 1/2" heighth rule in CSH/20SSH, would it be possible to propose allowing the 302 motors to use a speedometer water pick-up mounted on transum to supply water to the cast boss at top of tower?
Reason; to give this motor a chance to compete with the 80 (in 20SSH) and 102 (in CSH).
The 302 has an inherent disadvantage in abillity to "pump" water at this height with any kind of competative prop.
If you don't have the resorces/time/money to find that "MAGIC-WHEEL" for this motor, or exotic hull design that directs water to the water pick-up, your just playing "fallow-the-leader".........Or looking like a steam engine
Also, to help save down time/cost from these motors overheating.
Cost should be under $50?
(Or, Is this bending the definition of stock too far?)
(Was the definition bent with the introduction of the production race (only) motors---like Hot-Rod/Yamato?)

OR, drop the heighth rule to 3/4" were the 302 wheels pump water.. (OOPS,---- there goes a couple beers! )

End Quote:

The water pick-up would save the wheels that work on the 80/102's at 1/2" (instead of going to a 3/4" depth spec.) and help the 302s pump water with the same (type) wheel at 1/2"................
Or, let ALL non-water pump motors run a water pick-up mounted on back of boat with an enforced heighth rule......
Lets call it a "SAFETY ISSUE" so we're not all looking back at 60+mph to see if we're steam'n-"tea pots"
Also, you won't have folks like me diving across the course into the "infield", to go off plain, sending rollers across the course , to try and save a $200-$300 set of pistons before they meltdown/lock-up!)

My other reason/thought being----lets get this motor up to speed so the new Racer has a chance to get up front.......................with their NEW 302 (or any Yamato) investment without worrying about TOAST'N IT! and the embarrasment of being towed in first time out.... )

How was the A-OMC water passage-to-pipe issue presented/passed?

19P
PS: I bolted an extra transum on my black Altralite that is cut for MOD. Doing that set the motor back 8 inches from bottom of boat to front of gear foot (not sure everyone is going to want to go cutting up their rig), I also used a speedo pick-up and hose tied/pointed from tower tie back rope and pointed at prop to try to get more water with some/limited success...But I just called TJ to send more rings cause compression is down to 100 psi from last couple times testing this "steam engine"..........That has never been raced (USA)

[Lights]

302 water

Steve, I made a proposal for an external water pick up for the 302 last year and it got tabled. Didn't even get a chance for a vote. I wanted this change so I could buy a NEW 302 and not burn it up testing wheels. Insted I got a Used 102 because of it's ability to get better water. I think if the SO MEMBERS got to vote on it. Like the mod members get to it would have passed. That is another subject that I think needs to change. The SO MEMBERS should get to vote on changes.


Just my $.02
Mark

[csh15n]

302 Water Pickup

Steve & Mark

I agree with you on the cooling issue on the 302. I went through a whole season overheating motors (almost every race). I've tested almost every possible set-up and prop combinations and can never get near the 1/2" mark. For next year I've actually ordered a new boat to try and help with this situation. I've talked to several stock guys and they all agree with the cooling problem we have. I would be all for a solution for the cooling issue. The auxillary cooling pickup would be a cheap and easy solution

Erik Petersen (15-N)