S.O. National Meeting Agenda

[Fast Freddie]

It's Not The Number Of Classes,

...it's the number of entries that the clubs need to break even on race day. Presently they need to schedule a lot of classes to get enough entries. So, don't start at the wrong end! You must start with attracting more members to race before you start eliminating the classes of the racers that exist.

Having said that, how do we attract members to the existing strong classes so we don't perpetuate the weak ones at the same time? (This may be regional, though, since certain classes are stronger or weaker in certain regions. But that's OK if we limit weekends to certain classes in certain regions.)

One idea that has been around for a while, but had limited use, is to bias the water time toward the stronger classes. It can work like this: if your class has only four entries, you only get one heat of racing per day. Get five to eight boats out and you run two heats. If you get 9 to 12, you are scheduled for three final heats. More than 12 and you have two heat eliminations and two final heats (effectively four heats for most drivers). The cut-off numbers (4, 8, 12) can (should?) be different, it's the idea that is important.

The hoped-for result is that more drivers will "buy into" the stronger classes, especially new drivers. Also answers the question of why do certain drivers run lots of classes if the answer is to get in more heats of racing.

Offered as one person's idea, so, start shooting holes in this idea. We need some solutions.

Fred Hauenstein

[HRTV]

These are great post and this thread without a doubt is going to spark some much needed input and opinions. Let me start by saying has anyone ever wonder why we race for two days? In my opinion the local clubs should start to take a firmer stand on how many classes run each day and only choose the strongest classes available, yes this will leave many folks sitting on the beach but then again three boats in a class is not racing.

Someone mention this a few months ago in a post that I do not remember the title but the basis of the thread was we need to start the process of weeding out the three boat classes and only run the strong ones. How long are we going to try and make everyone happy?

Will this mean the drivers of the weak classes will be out? Yes and no again I go back to my statement that three boats in a class is not racing! If I were a spectator I would rather see three heats of CSH with twelve or thirteen boats in each class then sit through a day long event and watch three boats go around in circles with one guy pulling up the rear due to motor problems which basically leaves you with a two boat race.

My point is its time for some tough love in Stock Outboard racing many might not agree but the days of trying to make everyone happy must come to an end and fast! The program needs to fast paced and action packed.

Every year this same old topic comes up, what are we going to do? And every year it’s the same old race day, sun rise to sun set tons of classes back and repeat.

My idea of the ideal race weekend is a Saturday only event with ASH 20SSH CSH DSH or FEH same runabout classes. Don’t like the line up don’t come.

This is my opinion you dont have to agree or like it.

[Fox]

Fred,....I think the more boats more laps idea has potential.

My question is this?

if we had J,A,B,C,D

would there not be a class for anyone racing today? I don't even think that people would need different boats? or props?

slow friday at work,

Jay

[Blackhawkguy]

It seems funny to me this debate is still going on, it has been the same debate for over 30 years. Every time S.O. gets new motors nobody wants to get rid of the old ones. The other thing that seems to happen is one region is stronger than another in certain classes, for instance the midwest was strong in 25 runabout when nobody else had any. Also at one time there where no 20SSH anywhere then all of a sudden they where one of the bigest classes. With the addition of antique racing it seems to me that there is a point in time that you can move motors into this catagory, they can run their own events or tag onto local races if they have a strong class in that area. One example of how older equipment is eliminated is Stock Snowmobile racing, they give a sled 5 years then it is no longer legal for that class, at the end of that time the person is at least able to sell the sled for trail riding, this is where having conversion kits insted of racing motors would be adventagious. You buy your motor at the local dealer, buy the conversion kit then when you are done racing it you can still sell it as a fishing motor. This is easier said than done because outboard manufacures do not always change things from year to year and then when they due its a big change so it sometimes would make the conversion kit no good. The fact that in over 35 years, now I'm going back to the original 25SS, 35SS, and 15 hot rod days there has not been a solution yet to solve the problem of to many classes. Good luck on solving what seems to be the unsolvable problem.

[csh2z]

Progress!

Now we're getting somewhere. Keep it coming. Certainly different regions have different problems and cir***stances, we don't want anybody left out. One thing to consider is the status of a particular class. The stronger classes could be National classes and the smaller classes could be localized. We would have to create minimum standards for National classes but we could still run whatever the local clubs want to run. That way the smaller classes can still be promoted in an effort to try to grow the local classes to meet the standards of National status. More later. John 2-Z

[Dr. Thunder]

I believe that at a nationals event every stock outboard class has to be offered.

Don't know ... not sure ... was just curious

I also believe that this is a national issue and not a regional issue. We are stronger as a whole. Plus if we have each region run whatever classes they choose and not run others then we wont have the numbers to support the engine builder ...

Respectfully disagree ... yes, APBA is stronger as a national sanctioning body representing all of outboard (and other categories) racing ... but it ultimately is a regional/local issue. APBA will never be able to mandate what classes a local club choses to include on its race circular. They will just run what they want (e.g. NorCal 400 in Region 11). I believe that new participants will want to participate in those classes that are most competitive in their Region ... classes that have equipment that is easily acquired, readiliy available. that's where the new motor guys come into the picture. If all the fun in Region X,Y,and Z is with the new HotRod then that's most likely what the new guy will want to purchase.

... and if you have two big classes in five different regions then what would be the point of getting to gether at the nationals when the other regions are not racing what you are racing. This would divide stock outboard and make it weaker.

First of all you wont have just "two big" classes in five different regions ... most likely you will have four to six "bigs" in each region (ASH, ASR, CSH, CSR, JSH, DSH etc.). The guys that go to nationals are more often than not the same guys that run multiple classes at the local level or at least are participating in one of the "big" classes. Quite a few Region 10 racers will take their D Stock Hydro equipment to nationals and it is not a "big" class in most if any but one or two other regions. Ditto with BSH and BSR.

what is usts? how many members? what classes does it run? where does it run?

http://www.ustitleseries.org/

[dholt]

Dr. Thunder,

What point are you making? Of course, the conducting club has to schedule ALL stock classes at the Stock Nationals.

But they don't at local races. If the National landscape was trimmed, then NO club would have to decide which classes are included and which aren't. There would be time for everyone to race if they showed up. And test. And maybe even get 3 heats per day for 2 days.

It's a simple formula. Funnel all new participants into a smaller number of classes...and you'll see growth. You'll have more boats show up in each class at every race. You'll not have to worry if your class will have enough boats to race...or worry that your class is even on the schedule.

Additionally, it will be a lot easier to maintain new equipment supplies for a few classes in the future than worry about where the next engine for a bunch of classes will come from.

What you have now is a new guy faced with 13 stock choices and 13 mod choices (since most clubs are combos and run both at every race) All we get is a small bump in a few classes here and there instead of a surge in participation in a few classes.

D.

[dholt]

Hey Fred, glad to see a voice of experience chime in.

You are dead right about one thing...there needs to be a push to get members out of and/or not begin running weak classes. And as you and I both know, that's going to require a shove.

As for this "chicken or the egg" discussion about getting more drivers first or making the product more appealing to attract/hold new drivers...I offer this.

If tomorrow 100 guys came knocking on my door and said theyt wanted to race, here's what S.O. would have to offer.

1. An 8 hour race day. Up at 7:30am to register. $25-40 per class. Packing up at 5-6pm if you run at end of schedule.
2. 2 heats per class. About 8 minutes total water time per class
3. No testing.
4. At 90% of races, NO prizes of any kind.
5. 3 engines you can buy new today off the shelf. (Merc 15, Yamato 302, Tohatsu 'D') Merc 44xs is reconditioned. Close to new.
6. Average 3-6 hour drive one way to your local races during the summer.
7. Your class may not be scheduled at every race during the year.
8. Great people. They'd give you the shirt off their back.
9. Great ride...best 8 minutes you could imagine.
10. New boats across the country. Several builders. Avg. $3000-$4000 each.

Now...Joe Blow off the street...think he'd be chomping at the bit?

What if we offered:

1. Registration at 9am
2. 5 hour race day.
3. Buy a new engine for every class offered.
4. Testing
5. 3 heats each day. Maybe 4. 12-16 minutes of water time.
6. An award ceremony after racing on Sunday.
7. Great people, great ride, new boats of all kinds built to suit you, 3-6 hour ride one way to each local race.
8. Your class WILL be scheduled at every race during the year.


Which scenario sounds more attractive to NEW members.


D.

[Blackhawkguy]

I think the issue has always been national high points. Ten years ago 25 runabout did not have enough registered racers to qualify for nation high points without it being added (cannot think of what they called it) but Ernie Dawe would bring it up at the national meeting and it would be extended if you will. The midwest may be able to have full heats of say 25 runabout every weekend but anywhere else in the country you may get 2-3. I believe the number was 50 registed boats to qualify as a national class, I may be wrong but you get the idea. What you may want is for a class to be considered a national class if the motors have been manufacured within say (x) amount of years, after that time they are considered antiuqe or local classes, not good for national high points but can be added to local events or even to the nationals if the club running it wants. You want to give the new motors a place but maybee still allow a place for the older ones if they are strong in that area

[Blackhawkguy]

You know one thing we tried at Grass Lake the last year I ran it was doing a awards presentation durring the patrol boat change on Sunday, we awarded trophies for the weekend high point winner for each class. My thought on this was to give people the oportunity to get the hell out of there if they had a long way to go instead of making them wait around till the end of the day and the pits where cleaned up yadda, yadda, yadda. The refere stormed off the judges stand because he did not want to burn good racing water waiting for these quick three class presentations to take place even though I explained it in the morning meeting of the race comitee what and why we where doing it. Bottom line, people will race if they want to, every one of the points brought up in this topic are the same and have been rehashed over and over the last 20 plus years, with seemingly no solution. Every ten years there seems to be a cycle of new motors and then the old question of what to do with the old, if the new hot rod becomes readily available you almost have a A, B, C, D, class structure available with new motors, now what do you do with the old ones that produce strong classes at certain local events, go antique and they can race for national high points in this division or just become a local class.

[BP125V]

show me the data!

let's learn from our past mistakes and look at data BEFORE we make decisions.

Can we please get each kneel down club to submit the following info?

typical classes run at club races
typical number of classes that have elims at club races
do you have testing time
normal start time
normal end time
typical number of entries
do you normally complete each day's schedule?
what is your entry fee
number of entries required for club to break even

BSOA/MRC races vary greatly so I don't think I would supply "typical" numbers but I would supply details for each of our 6 races. Details have been pretty consistant for several years now.

I'll pull all of this together if people are willing to send me their data. if you can think of anything else that might be relevant include that as well. send to: bill.pavlick@perkinelmer.com

thanks,
Bill III

[L. Allen]

John

What about the Ladies' Tea?

[BP125V]

Dana has stepped up

Got a snap shot of a typical TRORA weekend already. keep them coming!

Bill III

[kws]

ladies tea is at the judges stand during the first patrol boat change lol
(just a rumor i heard)
good thoughts people !

[csh2z]

Tea time?

Laurie, As you know, it is one of my highest priorities to keep the ladies satisfied! With that in mind, it would be an honor to have you.......(where was I?) Oh yea!, be the coordinator/hostess of an event such as this. Now I have to go @%&*(, so where's the (*&%@!: mens room? You can count on me. John 2-Z