Poposed New Gas Rule-APBA

[Steve Johnson]

Mr. Jack Stotts

you write just as you speak.
I can Hear it now.
If you get up this way you can crash here for a day or so. Take you fishing.
Steve

[Ron Hill]

I'm Calm, Too....

We have had two APBA Nationals races this season so far, in our region. We bought gas at the station near Lake Ming.....I never even thought about the gas being illegal, but Chad did. "GAS OF THE DAY" ISN'T LEGAL FOR AN APBA NATIONALS. We borrowed Race Gas from Lance Haselrig and it was legal....Chad saw no change in RPM from Lance's fuel to the illegal Chevron bought on the corner..for $3.00 a gallon, compared to free gas from Lance (He paid $5.00 a gallon..).

Point: If the gas is illegal, shouldn't it have showed more RPM on a test wheel or on the boat? Why do we have to buy race gas to be legal?

Just getting everything together for a race is hard enough, then finding special legal fuel????

These banned substances???? Who can test for them? How do they test for them??? What percentage makes them run better??? Other than a list, who has ever seen dyno charts from these substances?

Seems to me, gas of the day, should be legal at every race.

If your meter goes higher, go get the gas of the day, on the corner.

Won't most of that list show up on the meter? Doesn't some of that stuff go out of the fuel in like 20 minutes???? I know when I check fuel on the PROP TOUR, I made them leave their tanks alone for 20 minutes before the start, as I knew somethings that helped fuel, went out in 20 minutes....

If I inspected Stock Classes, I'd have everyboat come to the inspection area and check the fuel before the heats....just to be "CHECKING"...if anything showed up, I'd do it for all classes...

There was a time, we only weighed people after the second heat...OLD MAN HILL started something once, checking unexpectedly, after the first heat...He wasn't popular with some....but many thought it a good idea....He also statred the concept of making the driver stay dry until he's makes weight....As several drivers had size 14 boots and size nine feet....

ADD: My belief, is that the guys that win..don't cheat......They work harder, smarter and better than the rest....My dad inspected the '52, '54, '66, '73, '77 Nationals...that I remember, and the Old Man always said the fastest guys always had the most leagl equipment....

The 1974 Nationals, Dick Davidson won CSH with old style Merc pistons, Steve DeFeo won ASH with a block that looked like he'd found on a sunken dingy....My DSR motor was so untouched by any machines but Mercury, that the inpectors.....shook their heads....

Last ADD: I agree that some kind of standard should be specified on these substances...IT MUST BE CLEAR.... 14-H can write a clear statement....???

[kws]

the alky in the pump gas makes the meter read to high. but you are right Ron there is no benifit in rpm from it. To me that means the digitron IS NO LONGER A VALID TEST
option 1
Maybe some type of litmus(sp) strip for each banned add. if the strip was designed to change colors when the threshold was exceded then there would be no confusion
option 2
the club hosting the race finds good gas and you buy it at the race ( with out a huge mark up!)

It just doesnt seem right that someone like chicago paul has to drive 1 1/2 hrs out of his way to pick up gas.

for us it is easy we dont live in a metro area. therefore good gas is at nearly every gas station .

[acr924]

This is the rule for the OPC category, if you notice at the bottom it was signed by Jeff Titus. The Stock did NOT and I think the Mod commission did NOT put in the stiff penalties the for the offences other than DQ for the race. Calm down Jack nothing is really new except you ARE allowed to use race gas.

You are right Bob, OPC did already adopt this rule at the national meeting. The proposed rule above is an APBA General Racing Rule, which means it would aply to all APBA categories. This rule should pass. There was a lot of talk about this at the national meeting. Everything that I have heard from experts is exactly what Don said, if this stuff is in your gas, you put it there. It is not a matter of trusting the gas companies, it is a matter of seriously punishing people who deserve to be punished. It is also a matter of health.

Ryan Runne
4-Z

[Dave M]

Oh Well

Unfortuantely rules are always open to interpretation. This seems to be a gray area in just about all the rules.

Hell, I can't pronounce most all the names of the banned substances, let alone know what the hell they are.

I really hope a spirit of the rule is adopted for this if it ever makes it into mod.

Maybe if a the fuel tester rode with each driver to the gas station so they could prove they are getting local gas at the pump they would not get tossed... I know of a lot of folks that get the shaft because the local fuel is not legal. More than one title winner has fell victim to this. Lets hope this specific testing eliminates this.

Suggestions - Keep your fuel in a dry, cool area out of the sun. Never let moisture get to it. Both of these cause the meters to react differently.

[kws]

ryan if you think there is NO benzene in gasoline you are mistaken. no offense intended. I agree most of the additives listed are not normaly in gas
but you can not walk into a tank farm with out seeing warning signs stating that the products in the tanks contain benzene and daughters of benzene while the last i looked the epa limits where somewhere around 3 parts per million
osha now says 1 part per million is to much

[ryan_4z]

I never said there is no benzene in gas. I wouldn't know, I'm not a chemist. The rule says that if these components appear in your fuel, in greater concentration that what is allowed by the EPA, then you will be thrown out. No one I heard talk about this at the national mtg. thought that there would be a problem with people getting unjustly thrown out. It is pretty much cut and dry, if your fuel does not comply, then you are cheating. You are not going to get bad fuel from the gas station. These substances can cause cancer or death, we're not just talking about performance enhancers. The Gas companies are very careful about how much of these substances get into there gas, they don't want people dying from their gas.

[kws]

well....... their greatest concern is the bottom line. very shortly after that is liability exposure. because that impacts the bottom line. do not take this to mean they dont care at all. but allways first and formost is profit because with out it they are bankrupt.

[sam]

To me that means the digitron IS NO LONGER A VALID TEST
option 1
Maybe some type of litmus(sp) strip for each banned add. if the strip was designed to change colors when the threshold was exceded then there would be no confusion

The Digitron is not yet out of business; it can test over a range, it could be that the allowable range has to be changed, ie the allowable number changed from zero to a postitive number or such. Unfortunatly most of the banned chemicals don't have cheap or easy tests, there will never be a dip strip or drop and shake test or set of tests that would cover all the banned subsitances at reasonable cost that could be done on site at a race.

.... These substances can cause cancer or death ....

Unfortunately, the normal components of gasoline do too.

[G Stillwill]

The biggest thing that kicks out the numbers on the Digitron is the oxginated gas or entinol but yet it comes right out of the pumps at gas stations. Last year at the Nats my gas was so close I had to buy new gas at the Mobil down the street and stuck with mixxed gas and no where to put it. Yet the gas I had was nothing more then Shell hi test and penzoil. I since changed back to Amoco/Bp and havent had a problem yet. Acording to BP they use a low ash crude to make the AMOCO hi test which in turn meets the EPA without any additives or oxginating the fuel but I think that in some cities all gas is required to be oxginated regardless of the brand now the mid grade and regular Amoco does have the additives in it because its made with regular crude oil.

[Dave M]

Amoco/BP

I have used Amoco, now BP, for as long as I can remember. It has never failed a digitron test that I can recall. I am not sure on the additives stuff. The Ultimate (premium grade) has always run well in my stuff.

Can the OIL we use to mix the gas with be bad ? Maybe we should test that instead of gas ? I bet 99% of mod racers buy gas at the pumps and not airports, powermist, or anywhere else. I see a wide variety of oils being used to mix up the two-stroke requirments. If the OIL can have something bad in it, I would like to know. I simply don't know, as I am also reliant upon store bought chemicals for gas and oil.

[kws]

Dave some time ago someone posted a very informative post on fuels and oils I believe it was Karl Stohl . in effect he made it very clear you need to stay away from ANY oil that claims to boost power. due to the fact that if it boosts your power it has to have an additive that will more than likely cause you to be disqualified. and also said that while many people have an oil they prefer. any high quality oil that doesnt boost power should be fine

[Dr. Thunder]

Anybody know anything about a product called "Energy Release"? Anybody use it in their racing engines?

[flaursen]

Energy Release

The product itself is a refined product but the molacular carrier of the product will and does have some of the banned products in it which will set of most of the detectors (I used to be a distributor of ER out the coast) but it is to bad because the stuff does work in a 4 stroke but only saw marginal results in a two

Frank