more mod classes????

[Dave M]

Missed the Point I guess

Since I missed the apparent point.

Why not answer my question - Why not propose the Formula D STOCK class to put it in ? If it is to stay in total stock form, it should stay in stock and not be a Modified class. That is the only point I am making. It is already a legal Mod engine in FE. Why not just combine DSH and DMH and call it DH ? Then all three engines can go out an play and perhaps be the biggest class APBA has for kneeldowners.

[pops67g]

Forced obsolescence is the point!

It is a difficult situation to be in for anyone when they are told that a class that they have spent a great deal of time and money to do well in is done. If you want to remain competitive in said class it's not just a new prop, or a new engine, or a new boat, but all three at once! It's even harder when the engine you run can still be acquired new and parts are still available at the dealers. I do not have fond feelings for the stock outboard leadership for trying to kill my class. Mike 67G

[ryan_4z]

The proposal of the Formula D class was an attempt to undermine the decision of our elected representatives by a small group of people. If the D drivers have a problem with the decisions made by the SORC, than they need to go through the proper avenues to remedy that situation. If you don't like the way you are represented, elect new representation. These decisions cannot be left up to the drivers, if they are, progress toward the future will never be made.

That being said, I agree that the admission of the Tohatsu was a bad move. The decision to allow this motor was made much to hastily, and without proper intelligence. And if you read the dyno charts the Tohatsu does have a huge advantage off of the corners. This motor does not belong in the same class as the Merc. But it is here now, and so we must deal with this motor accordingly.

[14-H]

Panic Induced Overreaction

I participated in the tel. meeting Dave did, I viewed the same dyno info Steve did, I also participated in the meeting where the Tohatsu, with NO TUNER PIPE, was given a 1" height restriction measured at the FRONT of the gearcase and a 20lb weight increase over the Mercs.

The powerband comparison between the Merc and the Tohatsu is simlar to the comparison if you overlay the OMC 13 and the Merc 15 powerbands. The Merc 15 has more power and will accelerate out of the corner but tops off as the OMC swings more R's. Now, which one wins on the race course? The OMC! You have to put a restrictor plate in it so the Merc can compete even though it has 2 cubic inches less than the Merc.

You Merc guys OUGHT to be paranoid that when the Tohatsu doesn't go fast enough, your Mercs will have height and weight restrictions imposed on them. Here comes the whining....

[14-H]

D Class Afterthought

Who the hell do you Merc Stock guys think you're going to race against without the Tohatsu? No elims in DSH at the Nats and only 4 DSR's at a Region 6 championship, for God's sake! We didn't even run DSH at Grass Lake, one of the largest SO races in the country because only one showed up and he was the inspector.

You guys need to think about the big picture. This is the same argument I had with Tom Moulder when the 20H stock was introduced in the A Mod Class.

The alternative is to let the class die. Is that what you want?

[Dave M]

Let it Go ?

Let the numbers speak.

The motor can always run in a real Mod class, the Merc D in stock form can easily be made into a Mod motor.

If you are all so pissed, race Mod. Have your say. But, just don't create classes that race stock engines. This is why we have categories. The categories can run together, I think Dana Holt had a good argument on this last winter.

Y'all have fun on this one.

[Merc1]

It's easy when your not directly effected!

Mr. Mason / Hearn , your working with blinders on! Dave your right they can easily run in D Mod, But did it ever occur to you that a large portion of those same guys already have a seperate boat and motor for that class? Ed your opinion of the largest stock outboard race in the country is just that, an opinion! What added bonus do guys get from running that race? None! If you run 1 stock class is it worth driving 600 miles to do it or do you go to the race that lets you run 4 classes? To me that choice is obvious. If you use the " best of the best will be there" defense to make your point, That doesn't hold water either. There will always be one or two guys who don't show up. THINK about your EXCUSES before you use them to validate you position.

[sam]

THINK about your EXCUSES before you use them to validate you position.

Excellent advice.

I think there is a very high probablity that you D Stock guys are running from shadows that can never hurt you. Stand up to the paper tiger instead of running first to see if it is going to chase you.

[James Luce]

I participated in the tel. meeting Dave did, I viewed the same dyno info Steve did, I also participated in the meeting where the Tohatsu, with NO TUNER PIPE, was given a 1" height restriction measured at the FRONT of the gearcase and a 20lb weight increase over the Mercs.

The powerband comparison between the Merc and the Tohatsu is simlar to the comparison if you overlay the OMC 13 and the Merc 15 powerbands. The Merc 15 has more power and will accelerate out of the corner but tops off as the OMC swings more R's. Now, which one wins on the race course? The OMC! You have to put a restrictor plate in it so the Merc can compete even though it has 2 cubic inches less than the Merc.

You Merc guys OUGHT to be paranoid that when the Tohatsu doesn't go fast enough, your Mercs will have height and weight restrictions imposed on them. Here comes the whining....

Isnt the OMC a different style engine. I think my dad was telling me it was loop charged.

[James Luce]

In D-mod how willl they make it so the Tohatsu doesnt out perform the mercs? Will they make restriction on what mods you can do to it? The japanese Yamato smokes all Mark 30(H) C merc, and if the tohatsu smokes the merc, nobody will run the merc anymore , because almost no one goes to the races with no hope of winning. Then almost half of the APBA "competitive" motors will be Japanese, and its th American Power Boat Assotiation, not the Japaneses Power Boat Association.

I herd APBA might capsulize Formula E if they go over 100,and they are runing in the hight 90's, this class will ever get any slower (without rule changes), but they will get faster. They should just slow down FE down by making changing a few rules, and put the Tohatsu in FE. My dads sleeping and im not sure how many ci the OMC is, but i think its around 54ci, and if the Tohatsu is 50ci to me it makes more sense.

[nbass]

Engine comparisons

In round numbers, the legal OMC is 49 ci. and the Tohatsu is 44 cu. The OMC has three 1.31 carbs and the Tohatsu has three 1.02 carbs. Not the same.

I suggest everyone settle down and watch the race results. Ed and his team will make it work for all. Keep fighting and there will not be any racers. NBRA and AOF could see the future and embraced a new engine to support the future. Seems kinda silly to think about loosing an engine that cannot ac***ulate enough entries to have 12 boats at the nationals. Even if we were not offering the Tohatsu (which we did because we understood at the onset that a new engine was needed) the class would be dying. Knowing what we know now, we would be building coaster cart parts at a greater or at least some profit.

Lastly, the Bass Tohatsu has more $ in the American made products than the Japanese parts. Of course we could go to all the smaller four-cycle Mercury engines, all of which I understand are made by Tohatsu. There is very little that is American made today. That's just the way work is done these days.
Neil Bass

[mercguy]

In D-mod how willl they make it so the Tohatsu doesnt out perform the mercs? Will they make restriction on what mods you can do to it? The japanese Yamato smokes all Mark 30(H) C merc, and if the tohatsu smokes the merc, nobody will run the merc anymore , because almost no one goes to the races with no hope of winning. Then almost half of the APBA "competitive" motors will be Japanese, and its th American Power Boat Assotiation, not the Japaneses Power Boat Association.

I herd APBA might capsulize Formula E if they go over 100,and they are runing in the hight 90's, this class will ever get any slower (without rule changes), but they will get faster. They should just slow down FE down by making changing a few rules, and put the Tohatsu in FE. My dads sleeping and im not sure how many ci the OMC is, but i think its around 54ci, and if the Tohatsu is 50ci to me it makes more sense.

"The japanese Yamato smokes all Mark 30(H) C merc"

....................you think so huh?..........................

[James Luce]

Why, you have a merc that can beat a yamato? I herd if there was one that could keep up wiht the c yamatos, it would be bob galers(not sure on spelling) c mod.

[mercguy]

Why, you have a merc that can beat a yamato? I herd if there was one that could keep up wiht the c yamatos, it would be bob galers(not sure on spelling) c mod.

yes, I do! And there are several others out there also.......ask your dad!

[Dave M]

Thanks For the Insight

Thanks all for the insights, I learned a lot from this thread. Passion can be both a blessing and a curse.

Have fun sorting it all out.