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Another piece fixed, time to fix a stripped out transom clamp. Then set timing and find a better way to lock the mag down. The two hold downs are not sufficient to hold it in place and the forward locking mechanism is MIA.
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Luc TJ has mag locks, one on each side under the mag. When it comes to water feed pickup that unshaped foot could be a problem at the higher prop shaft heights as well as the transom angle and prop shaft level or kicked in.
Happy testing
Pete -
I had not considered tuck affecting water pick up…another thing to look into.
Also I have the two mag locks on each side each held by two bolts. They don’t seem to me quite enough, we knocked the mag my accident and it moved after setting timing last time. I’m sure I can make what I have work.
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Local run was yesterday, we had an abundance of wind with white caps on the course for a good part of the day. Morning testing was ok.
But when us bsh boats went out for a run a rookies driver flipped his boat trying to make it to the clock.
I made a few small changes to the set up but ultimately ran at 1” below to make sure I was getting lots of water. No cooling issues bites with the motor even on a 5 lap race. Still think there’s a little more power to be had but I was able to show that the boat is competitive when I had a deck to deck run for the lead for 3 laps with a much more experienced racer.
The basket case motor and scrap pile boat worked great. Now we need to work on the driver.
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Sounds like coming along well. Post a pic of the scrap pile boat. On any gear case work with new bearings, etc after 1st use I check the oil condition to see of all well and no bad stuff like water and metal in the oil. What oil brand and weight gear oil did you use, full syn or other? -
Pete,
The Bezoat still looks the same. I was so caught up in the day I didn't take a single picture. I'll get some from friends I'm sure and I'll post a couple up here.
I ran synthetic 75-90 gear oil and will change it between each use.Last edited by Albert; 08-15-2022, 04:20 AM.
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A nice picture taken by someone at the start finish line, we ran like this for 3 laps.
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Definitely a 300 series engine on Kevin’s boat. The fastest of fast Y80’s run 68 and the C’s are running 71-72, not a lot of separation between the engines. Not many running those above speeds either. The Y80 will out accelerate the 102 and 300 series engines also straight up. -
Deeougee,
Those could be fighting words. If anything other driver may have been sand bagging a tad because he knew he should have had a plate in.
Either way nothing but good things to say about 26b for running clean and both him and 38ce for getting by me when I showed my rookie colours and totally botched a corner. C’est la vie, I’ll get faster.
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Thanks Dean,Originally posted by DeanFHobart View Post
That was a smooth as the water got all day, but it was definitely the boat and I's best showing to date, really encouraging to see the motor and boat starting to come together.
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Dean F. Hobart
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One more for kicks.
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Where to begin,
Firstly I'll excuse myself for not keeping this updated over the past few months. Some family changes have meant that boats and a great many other things had to be put on the back burner while some more important things were sorted out. As life continues to normalize I'll make an effort to keep this thread updated.
My plan all winter had been to attend both the Enfield and Fairfield Maine races this year, unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to Enfield but my father approached me about a month ago and told me he and my brother were going to Fairfield. Friends suggested a little fun might be good for me...
On Tuesday the 11 we pulled my boat out and went to test after a terrible test session where I couldn't get any rpm out of my motor on the previous week. Cleaning of the carb woke the motor up and we kept jacking the motor up and finding more speed until I hooked in a corner and the boat threw me into the river. With only 2 days until we were supposed to leave for Fairfield my boat was cracked up and my motor was full of salt water.
Fortunately for me Adam Carruthers had come out to help test so we loaded the boat into the trailer and brought it directly to his house for emergency repairs. Within 3 hours , that's not a typo, he has a repair panel made and epoxied in! All this while he should have been prepping for Valleyfield. I am tremendously grateful for his help.
While Adam Tackled the boat we tore into the motor flushing, flushing, and flushing again. Once flushed drained and dried out with compressed air we oiled it down then put a couple cans of fogging oil through it to helpfully displace any remnants of fogging oil. We loaded the 80 into the trailer and my father picked the boat up Wednesday evening from Adams.
Last edited by Albert; 07-17-2023, 04:55 AM.
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With the boat repaired and the motor loaded up and my brothers boat in the trailer we set out to Fairfield for my first APBA event. our 6 hour drive down turned into 7 with boarder delays but we made it down in time for me to test on Friday. It was apparent after testing Friday my set up was still too light. But some set up tools were leant to me and some experts helped me raise the motor and tuck it in quite a lot further which supplied a stable boat set up for Saturday.
On Saturday the decision was made by the officials to run the heats back to back because of the limited ramp space at the site.
BSH was my first class up, the boat started well and while I was early at the start and had to let of the throttle not to jump I did ok placing 4th out of 7 racers. Not bad for a rookie. Second heat I ended up in traffic and while I went into the first corner with other boats I came out in 4th where I finished the heat without much issue.
As I went out for my 3rd heat I had my throttle cable jam just after the white flag dropped, I had no choice but to point the boat off the course and pull the kill switch. I had a great view of the last heat of 20ssh from the outside of the first corner.
20SSH I should have fired the motor and warmed it up on the beach but didn't. When we got it in the water it wouldn't fire and we ended up flooding it. With the help of several other racers we drug it out of the water and got it fired eventually but with more hassle than the motor has ever given me. It felt like it just wasn't getting fire for the longest time. By heat 3 it was running and while it did cut out 2 times for a second during the run I had my best heat and had a great lap and a half getting taken to school by 82B.
When we took the boat back out of the water I went to pull the plug wires to remove the prop and found the top wire cap was loose as can be. I'm thinking its poor connection was the cause of the hard start and flooding wires and caps will be replaced for piece of mind before I test again.
All in all I would say even though I missed a couple heats I felt I had a successful event. It was good for me to get out and be social and I can't say enough about how helpful the people were at the event. The SSOA, in my opinion, greatly deservers its reputation as a welcoming club with helpful people.
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Luc
First time in real APBA competition you did good. Things happen at the races and pre race prep doesn't always prevent it ;-)
In my first APBA race in new 25ssh class (with Avatar) with the new from Mercury - Merc 25ss engine, a recoil housing leg broke and no spare (now I carry one, 20/20) so I was a DNR for that whole weekend (only did 1 class as my APBA start), what a disappointment! Nobody had a spare to loan since the engine was new and others were having the same problem with the recoil housing cracking. Took some time to get used to it and fix what broke on that engine.
What sparkies are you using in the Y80?
I use NGK B10EGV (#5927) fine tip electrode with 18mm to 14mm adapters and indexed. Best plug I have found.
I agree on a dry land cold start before putting in the water, about 20 seconds with no water cooling no problem. Some Y80's do not like to start with the prop in the water and the megaphone probably somewhat under water. My Y80 starts in the water ;-)
Try a bit richer on the low speed needle also helps the mid range in the corners
Where do you have the high speed needle set?
On my Y80 set up best is at 26 clicks from bottomed, 28 clicks is 1 rev from bottom for my high speed. Each boat and prop setup requires trial and error on the high and low needle for peak revs, mid range and easy start.
What fuel octane a oil ratio are you using?
I use E-free 87 with 16:1 oil synthetic blend Pennzoil XLF, this oil has zip carbon build but I keep the revs 7000+ to keep the carbon down and plugs clean. Timing set at 0.210" +/- on both cylinders with buzz box, I also check with a strobe light. The Y80 does not keep in time due to the factory clearance in the top needle bearing and wear, I was told the engineers gave extra bearing clearance to help get oil up in a cul de sac bearing dead end? I adjust timing often.
The Merc 25ss has a unique top bearing oiler with check valve and pressure to keep the top bearings oiled, nice design!.
Happy fun safe racing
Pete"Keep Move'n" life is catching up!
No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session.Comment
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Pete,
I have been using autolite 4051 as its a non resistor plug in the same heat range as your b10egv. But without having to use adapters in my head perhaps I should reconsider in a different heat range as even the autolite are getting a little tricker to get due to them being a non resistor plug.
My hi speed is about 1 turn out, we played with it a little so I would have to check the settings.
We ran E free 93 with timing set at 205" and Lucas Mixing oil at 18:1. -
Luc That 4051 is a 19mm (0.75") reach with no gasket. With the 14mm Y80 head will probably protrude too much into the combustion chamber. I do not know if the Y80 head with the no adapter 14mm plug hole is deeper than the Y80 18mm head plug hole? The original Y80 NGK A9N 18mm plug is 1/2" (16/32") reach without the OEM copper spacer and about 13/32" with the copper spacer and that plug outer ring is flush with the combustion chamber surface when installed.
The NGK B10EGV (a non resister race plug fine tip gold palladium center electrode) I use is also 19mm reach but with the 18-14mm adapters I adjusted with shims and some adapter grinding to not protrude into the combustion chamber to be like the original design. I also index them so the ground electrode points in the general direction of the intake ports. The NGK 10 heat range was selected colder than the original A9N heat range because it was recommended (Rick Montoya) to go colder with the adapter for better heat transfer because the plug with the adapter will run hotter. So if you go with the NGK 14mm I suggest to use use a hotter B9EGV plug (#5827) to be closer to the NGK A9N heat range. Also the 19mm reach needs to be reach adjusted as noted. Of course to do is to try with experiment and finally test
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The 14 head has 3/4” reach. Have a variety of non-resistor plugs, even the half heat ranges. Next up to try, NGK BR9EYA’s. I run EYA’s in all my other performance equipment. Saw info put out by Arctic Cat that the EYA’s fall in the half heat range when you run them so the 9’s would be more like a 85. Cat started using these as standard equipment in their production sleds after their discoveries in racing. Yes these are a resistor plug but being at the end of the like with 5k ohms resistance it’s acceptable. Obviously when using resistor plugs, any plug for that matter you should be measuring resistance on the centre electrode and along the metal plug body for leakage and damage which will be picked up on the meter in the form of some sort of ohm reading or zero if the electrode is severed somewhere. Those 18 heads have really limited availability for plugs. Your better off getting the aluminum inserts from Lee (machined components llc) and converting to 14’s like you have.Comment
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Congratulations on your accomplishments Albert. That is awesome.sigpic
Dean F. Hobart
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The reports of the death of hydro racer have been greatly exaggerated it would seem.
So here we go again.
The Bezoat has continued to outperform its driver and motor at almost every opportunity. This year I had a small list of things to do before heading to Lincoln Maine for the SSOA season opener.
Firstly my transom plates were a little rinky dink so I had a local fab shop whip something up for me. Pictures to follow.
Secondly I stripped a transom clamp last spring and had to use a nut and bolt to clamp the basket case y80 down. It was functional but not very pleasing to the eye. The mid section is at a friends now who is making me a press fit bushing to repair the stripped clamp.
Thirdly, and most importantly, more speed! We had a local test day in the fall and the boat set up got better and better but I was still not able to catch a certain inboard racer from New England . So speed is needed. My Y80 , as is well documented here, has seen a lot of action. But every time I’ve had it apart it works better when I put it together. Every time I learn something. This year it got the head planed slightly as I did cc well above the limit and had over 0.03” of material to work with over the squish band. I also put fresh rings in the motor and gave it a light hone as there was some very minimal vertical streaking visible in the bores. Some more massaging of the foot will also take place.
I have 5 weeks to prep and test before Maine. Let’s get this party re started.
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Luc -
You feel the need for speed
https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervie...1&&FORM=VRDGAR
Have you noticed your Y80 is probably (like all) not holding the ignition timing you set due to the top bearing design with excessive lateral clearance, probably there to help oil get to the bearing at a dead end. There is a lot on HR about this and what the mod racers did to get it better (not stockers). So with this lateral clearance when you set the timing it will change with crank rotation at different rpm positions. Where is your 80 static timing set at? On my Y80 I use a dial indicator for piston BTDC position and check how steady with a timing light (at various RPMs) to see how much timing variation from where set (it is noticeable) . Lucky the Y80 is not that sensitive to timing variations if not too excessive and reasonably close to where you want it. If not I do a bit of reset with dial indicator and recheck with the timing light. Then test -test - test.
Did you ever get the good mag locks from TJ as I noted earlier in this thread?
I do not follow your too much cc's so you planed the head?
Have you set the reeds max open to be dead nuts the same for all, I use a correct size drill bit barrel to do it? Also the reeds do not close all the way there is a designed static lift off the reed plate that needs to be the same. Are the reeds without any bends and no corrosion?
Have you indexed the spark plugs and what plugs are you using?
Where is the high speed jet set? All are different to get it right.
Maybe you already stated previously, what head are you using 18mm with adapters for 14mm plugs or 14mm head for 14mm plugs?
What oil brand, type and ratio are you using with E free fuel if available? I use 87 E free at 16:1 Pennzoil XLF syn blend
Good luck and hope you get the speed you need
Pete"Keep Move'n" life is catching up!
No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session.Comment
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Pete,
Yeah these things don't hold time well at all. I usually set it at about 220 and run it there. I have all new crank bearings so it's reasonably tight.
I got some good used Cam locks and it now holds the mag tight.
I checked the volume of the chamber at TDC and measured out to just below 20cc, I believe the the tech manual says it has to be 18cc at a minimum. So I felt comfortable having a machinist take a couple thousands of an inch of the head. I haven't checked the reeds since I first assembled the motor. I like the drill bit idea, maybe I'll do that tonight.
Still running non resistor autolite 4051 copper plug in a 14mm head. I didn't see any notable difference in performance with indexing the plugs, but I have a fresh box here so maybe I'll make a couple pairs and re-test. I have a new garmin gps that I think will be more accurate then the phone app I was toying with last fall.
Mixing Lucas semi syn oil at 20:1
E free fuel is a real issue in my part of the world (New Brunswick Canada) I can sometimes get 91 e free, but not reliably. I do actively seek it out. Otherwise I use 91 e10 and deal with cleaning the carb often.
Main jet is set at 1 full turn then in or our a click or two depending on weather. Not uncommon to see a 20 degree change in temp in this part of the world in a day. I need to test next week or the week after and I'll be lucky if it's ten above freezing.
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Luc
You covered the bases On plug indexing the butt dino for sure and even GPS will not give the complete answer. One way I would test an effect of a change was by running a measured distance with a stop watch. In a 3 lap race winning by a few feet could result from small hard to notice changes. On ignition timing I also did the same type testing and listened for any drop in revs over the distance, excess timing advance will give a rpm drop off. Having a digital tach will spot it along with the sound. I would use about 800 to 1000 ft.
As always Max speed on the race course is not the winner it's how quick around the course in 3 laps along with the needed obvious great start that counts. Great starts are hard to do with 12 boats, need lots of races to get it down + great equipment. Harry Pinner RIP (racer, props, engines, boat builder), Marshall Eldridge Jr RIP (racer, props, engine builder), and others gave me their tips on: start, race strategy engine, props, etc.
Thanks Guys, great friends that really helped a lot.
Pete
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