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BSH Observations From This Past Season

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  • BSH Observations From This Past Season

    Just wondering what peopleís experience was this past season with the SW and Y80 running together in BSH this past season in the US. The good, the bad, some interesting observations. I didnít get a chance to venture to any races in region 6 this year, was something I was looking forward to seeing with more participants.

  • #2
    Started out slow but as the season progressed there were more boats. The 25XS is also a legal motor. Record was set at Dayton with a Mercury and broken at Yelm by a Sidewinder.


    • #3
      Ryan you missed the part that followed 20.... a 20ci hotrod is not legal in bsr, a 20ci sidewinder is. Ill chime back in on this one later with my observations of the season.
      Johnny Wlodarski III


      • #4
        20 ci Hotrod isnt in any stock class as far as i know. Not listed on APBA site
        sigpicWayne DiGiacomo


        • Big Don
          Big Don commented
          Editing a comment
          This is correct. The 20CI Hot Rod is not legal in any Stock Outboard Class.

      • #5
        We have had the opportunity to watch BSH at many races this summer. At our local races, we have seen good competition between the Sidewinders and Y80s. More recently we got to see Mercs, Sidewinders, and Y80s race each other at Dayton and Millville. From what we have seen, the combinations of motors, heights, weights, etc, seem to be working well and the competition is healthy.

        At our local races, we have seen the Sidewinder and Y80s both have a chance to win. Often, the winner was determined by who got the better start. As Scoop mentioned above, the BSH record was set at Dayton with a Merc and then bumped up at Yelm with a Sidewinder.

        At Millville last weekend, we got to see the 3 motors race again. Johnny W, who has one of the fastest Sidewinder BSH rigs in the country won most of the heats. However, in one of the heats, Jeff Brewster, who has one of the fastest Merc BSH rigs in the country, was able to win. Slightly behind them each heat was Bob Howe with a fast Y80 rig. Based on what we saw, if Bob got out of the first turn first, the Sidewinder and Merc would have a challenge to get around him before the finish. What was also encouraging is that we heard many people over the Millville weekend comment about how close the different motors are running.

        The original idea for adding the Merc and Y80 to the BSH class was to help grow BSH in regions that werenít previously running 15ssH or BSH. The idea was that you could race existing Merc and Y80 rigs to make 4 boats, while growing the population of Sidewinder BSHs. The result is probably even better than anyone imagined. Instead of just having additional boats to make a class, we are seeing some great racing between the 3 motors. The Sidewinder seems to be a bit faster, which is healthy for selling motors, but with good starts any of the 3 motors have a chance to win.

        Another benefit we have seen with the BSH class is that it helps get Y80s out of peopleís basements and on the race course. At our Marine Racing Club races, if you signed up to race 20ssH with a Y80, you could race BSH for free. This extra incentive has helped get more people to race more classes locally. We originally offered free BSH to help promote the class. What we found is that there is the added benefit of helping new racers get more boat time over a weekend. The more people race, the more enthused they seem to get about going to the next race.

        From what we have seen this year, the BSH class is working well with the 3 different motors. It will be interesting to hear other peopleís thoughts, but from our perspective, it would be healthy if the BSH class remained largely unchanged for the next few years.

        - Mike


        • #6
          Another thing to consider is,there were no new Sidewinder 20 motors available to buy.That fact alone is why there were not many more B stock hydros in the races.The new Sidewinder 20 motors should be available in 2019,and the B class should grow . We will be racing in the B hydro class in 2019,with a new Sidewinder,and when we install the restricter on the carb.,we will be running the 15SSH class.


          • #7
            Don't forget, the BSH Kilo and 1/4 Mile record was set by a 25xs, yea buddie!! Most difficult record to set that I've ever been a part of..



            • Big Don
              Big Don commented
              Editing a comment
              I'm pretty sure APBA site is wrong. Those records were set with a Mercury by John.

            • ZUL8TR
              ZUL8TR commented
              Editing a comment
              John needs to get corrected

            • guedo499
              guedo499 commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks for bringing that to my attention! I'll call APBA today. These were only passes to establish records, so next time any raceboat shows up to a straightaway run, they'll have a really good chance to pass them up. And yes, they were set with a Merc XS on a long tower so I didn't have to cut the transom. I figure the Kilo record should be up towards 78mph and the 1/4 close to 70, but not with the XS, just too deep. 72 with the SW seems logical. John.

          • #8
            The SORC voted to allow the Merc and Y80 to compete in BSH to allow time for the Sidewinder population to grow. The reasoning is that it would be much easier to grow the class with the SW20 by allowing it to race against existing Y80 and Merc rigs. Over time, the SW20 would replace the Y80s and Mercs and it would evolve into a Sidewinder only class.
            Since it is already 1 year into a 3 year plan, I don't see the SORC adding additional motors to the BSH class. The good news is that I believe you can still race your 20ci Hot Rod or Merc 20H as a special event.


            • #9
              You can also race those motors in the mod category in either 250 or 350 mod hydro and runabout.
              Joe Silvestri

              Dominic Silvestri


              • #10
                20 C.I. Sidewinder For Sale- Completely fresh, only 4 heats on it. Very fast motor. $ 4500.00 Firm
                Call Robert Trolian 734-749-4010


                • #11
                  Well the BSH with Y80 and Merc gave me the ability to actually race in region 10 this year. Since I was the only one racing 20ssh with the 20SW in region 10 prior to this year. Pat and I called around and some of our newer racers in region are racing Y80's, so we got them to race with us (as mentioned above more water time for them). We usually only had 3 boats at a race (see my 12 races with 800 national points hahaha, also didn't help I didn't score any points at Moses), but we got on the water, which we used to our advantage to test every weekend.

                  Now Pat and I have been testing our B/20 sidewinder for 4 years. Multiple boats, motors, and props later we feel we are running really well. We liked our Moses Lake heats against Johnny (even though I spun out and Jumped, but felt we were competitive) and then set the 3/4 mile course record at Yelm. If you told me 4 years ago we would be fast enough to set a record in the 20SW I would have laughed. All credit to Pat by the way, he's worked his butt off to make this rig go fast. I just drive.

                  I'm excited to get out to Wakefield next summer for nationals to see what we got against everyone else who didn't make it to Moses.

                  My next thought is this, I am concerned with the west coast viability of the 20SW for BSH. While I think we have gained interest in the 20SW out here for BSH, Pat and I have the only two 20SW's on the west coast. The current rule is the Y80s are to be taken out of BSH in 3 years (correct me if I'm wrong). Sidewinders are needed out here or BSH on the west coast looks to be dead in 2 years by the current rules (which can change). I guess we take it year by year right now. But I'm very concerned.

                  I do like the class, I love the ride, and I hope we get more guys in region 10 and the west coast thinking BSH would be a fun class. If anyone reading this on the west coast wants more info contact Pat or I. If you buy a 20SW motor we'll give you a boat to start out (we have either a used Runnecraft hydro or used Dartcraft hydro). If anyone is interested in seeing how fun these boat rides are, we plan to have our second 20SW motor available to run at every race in region 10 next season.
                  Last edited by Racerkyle20; 10-24-2018, 05:05 AM.
                  Kyle Bahl

                  "He didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you, he rubbed you, and rubbin' son is racin'!"


                  • #12
                    Hey Kyle how do you like the boat ride at 1/2Ē? SW Inc. has to address some of the reliability issues with the SW 20. The first year that guys ran the motor here (Ontario) it was great. After that guys started burning up motors, rings and pistons, to the point where this past year some of them went out and bought new Y321ís. Itís going to be a hard sell on the SW 20 until they address the reliability issues. I really wanted to get one until I heard all they issues that started to crop up. To me looks and sounds like one sweet ride! Would be great on a runabout also. Have seen some great racing come from the SW 20.


                    • Big Don
                      Big Don commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Maybe Ed Runne can comment on here as to what he's seeing and hearing.

                      I had a person tell me the same thing a few weeks ago, that they just don't feel the 20 Sidewinder is reliable as the current A Sidewinders are, therefore not ready to get one yet.

                      Hopefully we can get Ed to address this in this forum as to what he's seeing and hearing, and if there are any changes planned to address them, if in fact there are issues.

                    • Racerkyle20
                      Racerkyle20 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I love the ride at 1/2”. It’s great! Far better than 1” it was in 20ssh.

                      As far as relatability issues, Pat and I have been frustrated at times. But Ed Runne has been great at getting us back on water quickly after a broken
                      part or whatever this issue is,

                  • #13
                    I see Kyle put up some comments on our team's observations on BSH and the 20 Sidewinder. I would like to add a few thoughts/suggestions.

                    ​The whole reason I sold our Merc 44XS DSH rig and decided to go down this path was I believed in what Racing Outboards was attempting to do. ALL of us who race ARE Stock Outboard. I believed then, and believe now, that we need to support those actively support our sport. Racing Outboards took a big chance when they got into this business. I've been around Stock Outboard long enough to remember people saying for years, "if only someone would buy Hot Rod from Tom Moulder." Well, it happened. Someone stepped up and put his wallet on the line because he believes in Stock Outboard. And that is someone I have to support.

                    ​As far as reliability? Of course there have been issues. They're a small, 60lb motor turning at over 1000 more RPMs than a bulletproof, overbuilt 100 lb Yamato. There's new parts. New manufacturers. I was an early adopter. I knew the job was dangerous when I took it.

                    ​And to be honest, I can state that ANY of the mechanical problems our team has had with our Sidewinder 20s since May of 2016 have been self-inflicted. This includes the crank issue we had in 2018. I cannot fault them for anything over the past 3 completed seasons. The one heat we had a DNS this year was due to an overly considerate driver than any problem with the motor (Kyle can explain that if he cares to). And when problems have cropped up, Ed Runne has stepped up and taken care of us promptly, and always at a price that was appropriate, and more than fair for the situation.

                    ​I am hoping that in 2019 we can field two competitive BSH rigs in Region 10 and allow others in Region 10 to experience the Sidewinder ride in our second rig. And as Kyle stated above, I have a RunneCraft 15-BSH that I will GIVE to anyone in Region 10 who steps up and buys a Sidewinder 20.

                    ​I have seen the BSH class out west be an opportunity to get new racers in Y80s more valuable seat time, and not have to run in trashy 10th place water in a full field of 20SSH. For the record, most of those drivers still sign up for 20SSH as well, so it's allowed a new class to grow in our region. I am hoping that eventually we can transition these drivers to a Sidewinder over time.

                    ​Which brings me to what I think is the biggest challenge facing B-15SS: Engine availability. It's tough enough to convince a new guy that he should park his $800 Yamato 80 and buy a $4750 Sidewinder...but it's quite another thing when you finally convince him or her to step up and buy that they have to wait months or an entire season to get their new toy. We have become a society of instant gratification. If you're going to spend that much money on your summertime toy, you should be able to use it in the season you order it.

                    ​Racing Ouboards is faced with some challenges with their current business model, one of the biggest being small component runs. Rod and piston manufacturers don't want to do a run of 20 parts at a time, they want to do 100's. If you can even find a vendor to do a short run, you're going to have to pay a lot, and wait for them to schedule your parts run between the big runs for their mega-customers. Or, the other issue, that the nice little mom-and-pop shop that previously took on your short production run because they needed your business last time, finally gave up the ghost and closed shop altogether.

                    ​As long as we run their motors, I will do everything I can a racer and member of Stock Outboard to support Racing Outboards LLC. But they need to step up and crank out more motors in a prompt manner. Ron, if you are reading this, get some help for Ed. Please!


                    "No, THAT is why people hate him."


                    • Matt Dagostino
                      Matt Dagostino commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Well said Pat.......our SORC goal by including the Yamato 80 and 25xs engines into the 'new and improved' BSH Class was to make sure the class got on the water every weekend even if it meant the Sidewinder (Motor Of Choice) was outnumbered! So far it has worked at many East Coast races. Recently we have seen all 3 engines compete against each other giving Sidewinder EXPOSURE and hopefully getting folks interested in buying it as the only available manufactured engine in the class. I believe also that we need to assure the Yamato 80 and 25xs at least stay on the same lap if you will, to assure they don't lose interest and not enter! So far the 'parity' seems to be pretty close with the top shelf Sidewinders (Johnny W.) able to win if he gets a decent start and the Yamato 80 and 25xs in the hunt. While it is not ideal to have multiple engines in a class, sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures! Hopefully when the Sidewinder can stand on it's own in BSH we can legislate out the other engines in a few years...Stay tuned.

                  • #14
                    It was a great opportunity for our 20 SSH driver to get more boat time, also we found out our 80 ran pretty darn good. great place to keep the 80s still competitive. Really hope this does not go away soon as there are a ton of good 80s out there.