Thoughts on Rule Change Proposal for future Stock Nationals

[Johnny_Hydro]

Last year at Grass Lake, Michigan, the entire stock nationals were completed in three days. We are going to run into this problem moving forward, as the mod nationals are going to be with the pro nationals at Constantine for the next five years. The idea that I am proposing, is to change the format of the finals, to a three heat format. This means that eliminations will still consist of two heats, to achieve the final twelve boats, and then three more heats will be ran to determine the national champion. This will promote a true winner, lengthen the nationals and provide more opportunities to get in our boats and race. I believe this will make the long drive more "Appealing" to racers who are traveling from the corners of the United States.
After looking through the rule book, the only rule that I found regarding this, is Rule 2: Regattas, section 9: "The race for each class shall consist of up to three (3) heats."
This means that it is possible to add a rule that would require an extra heat to be run in each final of the nationals, for all classes.
I am interested to hear the response to this, before I begin drafting a formal rule proposal for the national meeting in Orlando this year.
- Johnny Adams

[guedo499]

Hi Johnny, thanks for bringing this up. I'm going to have to disagree - making something longer is not the answer I'm looking for.

We need to ditch the separate nationals and have a super nationals, with the the three-heat format just like what runs in Depue or what we ran in OSY at Moses Lake. We can run ALL of the outboard classes in four days and, a fifth day for testing; the champion is crowned the same day as eliminations run. In flights, you combine pro classes with stock which elevates the rush on the inspection area.

For the three-heat format, you are given a draw in round one and round 2 and you must qualify by point for the final round 3

there could be rounds 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 1e; then 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 2e and finally round 3 - total points wins.

No longer automatic entrance into the finals for stocks

Just because is was done that way in the past doesn't make it needs to be that way in the future. Johnny, I like that way you're trying to make something different happen.

[HydroKyle93R]

Elimination rounds and finals are counted as two separate races. Races may consist of up to three heats. Currently, a competitor in CSH (for example) would race up to 4 times at Nationals. IF a three heat format was introduced, allow the final 12 to race three heats, instead of two. Elimination rounds would remain a two heat format and with three final heats, there would only be a net gain of one heat per class. Easier to score. Extra chance to score victory. What do you guys think of 4 laps?

[dholt]

I like the way you both are thinking. No other motorsport seems less "evolved" than our beloved boat racing. Been running races the same way forever...and perhaps that's part of the reason for the decline.
Give guys more heats...great idea.
Super Nationals is also a great idea...but finding the location for that...not so easy. Plus...there are many in other categories that want a shorter event...3 days. Not an entire week. I've never understood that...but so be it.
Let's work on Stock Outboard first...and giving drivers more heats for the same money should be considered.

[GrandpaRacer]

We actually had a couple 1 2/3 heat finals this year! Flips caused a stoppage in a couple of the second heats of the finals. Since two laps had been completed by the lead boat, the heat was called complete per the rules. I think for a National Championship if a race is stopped for safety reasons like a flip or crash the heat should be rerun. This would require a rule change also.
I also like the idea Johnny proposed, 3 heat finals for Stocks.

[GrandpaRacer]

When this happened, the position of most boats had only been determined based on times from lap 1. This is because only the lead boat and maybe the second had finished Two laps. So most had a 1 lap final. This is no big deal for a local race but for a Nationals we should have a whole heat. Let them laugh, we have to improve the Sport!

[Big Don]

I don't like the idea of scoring based off 1 lap.

If the rule does not change... for Wakefield I may (If I'm involved) make that a rule for the week. Or at the very least only count if everyone has 2 complete laps in.

[HydroKyle93R]

There was also one heat where a driver had taken the white flag, beginning the third lap, followed shortly by a red flag. That particular race was re ran.

My point is that a heat should not be considered a heat unless all three laps are completed.

[Wakefield 2015]

People drive a long way to go to the Nat's, sorry Guedo, but I would not care for a 3 heat format in place of the current 4 heat format. I do, however, like the idea of ADDING a heat to the finals. Two heat elims with a three heat final sounds like fun.
Bill

[Big Don]

mmmmm...we agree on this...could Wakefield 2019 be the first to try the 3 heat finals?????... Something to consider Mr Wakefiled 2015.

[spud62w]

I'd like to add one more thing. Have 12 openings in the finals. Just because you won last year show us how good you are this year. If you go to the nationals your there to race. Run the 3 heats

[guedo499]

People drive a long way to go to the Nat's, sorry Guedo, but I would not care for a 3 heat format in place of the current 4 heat format. I do, however, like the idea of ADDING a heat to the finals. Two heat elims with a three heat final sounds like fun.
Bill

I'm a-ok to disagree on something; I can definitely see your side. Even if you add another heat for the finals for stock, it's really only adding an half a days worth of racing, which can be absorbed into a Stock only nats.

Here's another angel about the super-nationals: time. Unfortunately, I won't be attending Wakefield 2019 as I want to go to the Mod/Pro Nationals. There's no way that I can take two weeks off of work in a month's span, but I can swing a week no problem and I don't think I'm the only one like that. Combining the outboards (most individuals run cross-category anyways) is the best answer for outboards in general, no question.

[HydroKyle93R]

I am in the same position. I can not take two weeks off, only one week, maybe 6 days.

[dholt]

John you'll need to bring that up to your Mod Commissioners. Agreed...combined Nationals is the smartest thing for the good of the sport. Some sites can't have the noise....but vast majority do.

[94H]

I think this needs to be addressed in the stock commission meeting.

[pav225]

Great thread Johnny!

We definitely need to look out for the good of the sport and work to combine Nationals. It really hurts everyone when they are split up because as Gueedo posted above, it's very difficult to do both if they are different weeks.

From a safety perspective, I'd like to see Nationals courses close to 1 mile. Bob Wartinger has lots of data that shows courses smaller than 1 mile tend to have more accidents than those at 1 mile.

- Mike

[Johnny_Hydro]

I agree that a super nationals would be the ideal situation, but that is not possible for at least the next five years. I believe adding a heat to the finals, while keeping the cost of racing the same would be a great temporary addition to a stock nationals moving forward. This could be tested at Wakefield in 2019, and could add more excitement for spectators at nationals such as Springfield in 2020 where we are expecting a large spectator turnout.

[Smiley]

Hmmmmm. I just bought a fireball 125 to add to the ASR and ASH equipment. While retired, there is no time constraint to attend two nationals; however, it is twice the cost for travel expenses etc.Does not make sense to me.
68R

[GrandpaRacer]

Great thread Johnny!

We definitely need to look out for the good of the sport and work to combine Nationals. It really hurts everyone when they are split up because as Gueedo posted above, it's very difficult to do both if they are different weeks.

From a safety perspective, I'd like to see Nationals courses close to 1 mile. Bob Wartinger has lots of data that shows courses smaller than 1 mile tend to have more accidents than those at 1 mile.

- Mike

This year the drivers were very happy with the Moses Lake course. It was nearly a mile, I think Russ said it was 7/8 mile. To your point there were only 6 incidents vs 23 in 2014 and NO ambulance runs! The only issue was the curved run to to the start dictated buy the shore line, but it was the same for all racers. 😀

[GrandpaRacer]

A super Nationals sounds good but the venue and time and weather are issues a hosting club has to consider. This year we were FULL at Moses Lake. Every camp spot and race trailer spot was taken. Some were camped in overflow areas without services. When the additional Pro boats showed up for the NACs on Saturday they had to pit far from the water. This venue just could not handle another 80 or 90 registrations and I am not sure the race committee could have taken on the added work load. We were all exhausted as it was.

[Harold8]

How many entries were at Moses Lake? I’m going to date myself here but in the 70s and early 80s , Sarnac Lake, Dayton Ohio, and Wakefield I believe had 600 to 800 and they got things run off in a 7 day stretch.

[yarnoracin]

Seattle Outboard did try to bid on a Super Nationals in Moses Lake this year. However, we didnt receive the support of the Pro Commission. I am confident that the race committe would have made it happen if we had time to plan it.

Also there were no heats completed and scored off of only 1 lap.

[flatsmoke]

So, if some of the boats only ran 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 lap when the race was stopped, how was it scored?

[Big Don]

my understanding it was scored off lap1

[Matt Dagostino]

Big Don...........i thought we discussed this exact issue at the National Meeting about making sure National Finals completed 3 laps! Maybe i was dreaming it??