Unconfigured Ad Widget

**csh-2z** · 11-30-2017, 07:08 PM

If you have drivers that pull that kind of crap, then it is up to the referee's at your races to get these guys under control. If it is a recurring problem there are a number of ways to handle it. Yellow cards, red cards or unsportsmanlike conduct.

Rules without the willingness to enforce them are worthless. This can only be fixed, locally. The rule is not the problem. And changing the rule is not the solution. Make your officials (including turn judges) accountable. Apply peer pressure, but settle it on land.

A few months ago I offered to help referee at Moses Lk. next year. I was thanked for the offer but told SOA had it handled. The offer is still available if you need help.

**ryan_4z** · 11-30-2017, 07:30 PM

The lead driver must have two boat lengths, nose to nose, and I as a driver feel d@mn good if I get that. More that enough room to do what you have to do. That EXTRA boat length is built in so that the driver on the inside knows if she is not clearly there then she better get out. As a driver, my number one priority in every heat is to safely bring my craft around the course and back to the pits. In order to acheive this I must not drive my boat into situations I cannot drive out of. As Matt and Dad say, all you can really do is glance over the inside shoulder. If you are coming up the inside, you can see the lead driver the whole way. You know if they looked or not. And, unless you are stupid, you know if they are about to hack you off.

**ryan_4z** · 11-30-2017, 07:32 PM

Maybe the rule should be changed. Too lenient on inside charging drivers. Cockpit to Cockpit!

**GrandpaRacer** · 11-30-2017, 07:33 PM

I agree we need to enforce the rules perhaps better but this one rule being only one boat length allows an unsafe chop that is currently legal. If the rule were two or three boat lengths or a rooster tail, there would be a lot less chopping. And if a chop happened at a more reasonable distance there would be a lot less damage and risk to the guy being chopped. The race would be safer, shorter and more fun for all involved.
John Adams

**GrandpaRacer** · 12-01-2017, 09:52 AM

Opinions differ on the chop rule but I don’t think they differ on the safety of being chopped off at one boat length. It is not a safe maneuver! This is currently legal in Stock before the gun, on the run to the first turn, in the turns and in the straights(not legal between the exit pin and the start where lane changing is not legal). We all know it is not a safe maneuver but it is still legal to do it. The boat ahead by 1 boat length can just cut you off and ruin your race, your day and your weekend. Why should the rules allow this? If a boat is faster there is no reason to chop. So if you are tired of being chopped off with a legal maneuver at 1 boat length let your Commissioner know! If you are tired of having your stuff wrecked and being placed in a dangerous situation let your Commissioner know! If you want to race the whole weekend and have more fun let your Commissioner know. If you think being chopped at 1 boat length space is unsafe let your Commissioner know! This is the only way YOU as a racer can get this changed.
John Adams

**PittmanRacing** · 12-01-2017, 10:42 AM

Cockpit to cockpit is the rule used in all other categories. This shifts the decision making rule more towards the overtaking boat than just the lead boat. How can we realistically expect a lead driver, with all the spray to look forward, side to side, and behind at all times? If someone closes within one boat length after the turn has started, the lead boat should be looking ahead, especially if they are not in first place because it is in the turns that boats most likely go over. I have barely avoided boats and driver which were ejected due to mishap ahead of me. I imagine they appreciated I wasn't looking behind at that time (2nd to 3rd pin).

**csh-2z** · 12-01-2017, 04:42 PM

Last year, Paul, I proposed a bow to stern rule for overlap for the same reason used to justify cockpit to cockpit. My reasoning was to limit to a minimum, the amount of time a lead driver has to look behind him. It is also much more obvious when an overlap is established. It puts more of the responsibility on the overtaking inside boat.

**pav225** · 12-01-2017, 08:02 PM

I could use some clarity on this. Does 'cockpit to cockpit' mean that I can start on the very outside, and as long as no one is in front of me, I can legally aim for the entrance pin at turn 1?

**PittmanRacing** · 12-01-2017, 09:27 PM

Pav, I am not 100% sure of your question. I can tell you, it works in all other categories. If I understand what you are saying, if you are on the outside, and you have anyone on your inside cockpit to cockpit (btw - most use the judgement rule if you can see them next to you, give them a lane), you have to leave a lane. If they are behind, you have the right to take the lane. The decision the inside boat, who might be behind, has to decide for themselves what to do rather than the lead boat. Do I risk trying to squeeze through or do I slow down and yield the lane. Drivers can see someone on the inside or outside through the turn. You can't necessarily see them behind you through the whole turn, especially when in the middle of the turn. Btw, if I am ahead and involved in an incident, I don't what to get run over by someone behind me saying "sorry dude, I was looking behind me to make sure I remained at least one boat length ahead." Again, our current rule shifts most of the overlap decision to the lead boat. Such a decision through an entire turn is nearly impossible and dangerous to be looking for. The real issue, as previously mentioned, isn't entering the start of a turn as much as closing the gap once the turn has begun. I have seen many cases were the lead boat was easily one boat ahead entering the turn and the trailing boat never lets off the throttle, forcing the overlap after the first buoy. At a minimum, the one boat length should only be applied only to the entrance buoy IMHO. For the rest of the turn, look ahead and side to side...not behind.

**pav225** · 12-02-2017, 06:40 AM

Legally, someone could start in lane 12 and saw everyone off on the way to the first turn? As long as their cockpit was at least in line with the other cockpits, it is considered legal. Correct?

Knowing the turn judges are inside the course, and based on angle of viewing, the outside boat could probably even be back a few feet and it would appear as cockpit to cockpit from the turn judges perspective.

A chop is never an easy call. Probably not enough get called, and some maybe shouldn't. I think John's idea was to help improve the safety of the sport and keep from having more broken equipment. I have fixed a ton of OPC boats in the past. Most of the crashes occurred in the corners where they allow cockpit to cockpit... I believe they went to cockpit to cockpit after the introduction of capsules, because the capsule blocked your side vision quite a bit.

If we adopt cockpit to cockpit, the outside boat can aim for pin 1, or even the last pin in the turn, if they chose. Regardless of how many boats are inside him, this would be perfectly legal, correct? I'm sure it would tick off the 11 drivers inside of him, but legally, he could do this. Probably something to consider.

**dholt** · 12-02-2017, 07:02 AM

There's nothing wrong with current rule.
we don't want those overlap rules that pro and opc have which leads to LANE racing. Only way you can really pass is on outside in a turn with that type of overlap rule.
turn judges just need to make more calls

**PittmanRacing** · 12-02-2017, 07:10 AM

Pav, no. If they are on your inside, the rule means you leave a lane. No one is sawing off any other drivers in the first turn as a result of this rule, otherwise all the other race categories would change the rule. It works. No matter what the rule is, drivers can saw someone off which should be called by turn judges.

With regard to the frequency of incidences I think that we should really look at the data. I raced an OPC for many years and saw fewer incidents than in stock outboard. Most of these were never result of an overlap issue.

**Matt Dagostino** · 12-02-2017, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by PittmanRacing View Post

Pav, no. If they are on your inside, the rule means you leave a lane. No one is sawing off any other drivers in the first turn as a result of this rule, otherwise all the other race categories would change the rule. It works. No matter what the rule is, drivers can saw someone off which should be called by turn judges.

With regard to the frequency of incidences I think that we should really look at the data. I raced an OPC for many years and saw fewer incidents than in stock outboard. Most of these were never result of an overlap issue.

'Tis The Season'..............just remember this is just a Hydroracer chat forum and no consideration or conversation is currently taking place with the SORC on this racing rule. It is interesting to read all the different thoughts and ideas. It is also cool that often time over 6000 folks view a topic!! That tells me the silent majority is paying attention although they don't often comment unless something outrageous pops up. To see Mitch Meyer or Dominic DiFebo chime in is very cool. With the volume of traffic Hydroracer generates, it really is the best social media site in the world to connect with boat racers!............

**deeougee** · 12-02-2017, 08:15 AM

More than anything use what's in your head! Know who you are racing against and know what you and your equipment are capable of! The lead boat will always dictate the way around the course. Bad things usually happen in turns when people make the wrong move. If the trailing boat is trying to make a move on the inside and slides out through the tail of the lead boat you have little control of where you are going and may wind up in front of traffic in the outside lanes. There's subtle ways of sending the message to the guy behind you without slamming the door like squeezing them in down the straight to tell them, "hey there's not going to be any room for you when we get down to the corner". 20SSH is they only class I've seen where drivers get a pre-heat warning just before the start of a heat from the race director that "hey the throttle works both ways, use your head out there!" Questionable moves seem to happen in the Yamato classes a lot more than in other classes. As speeds go up it seems more respect is given to your competitor. You don't see these moves in DSH and DSR. That's a small group of guys going really fast where things happen fast. There is little room for error. Just because the rules say you can do it doesn't mean that it is "safe" to "slam the door" with a boat length. We all have things to do on Monday so think about it.

**GrandpaRacer** · 12-02-2017, 10:19 AM

Deeougee you are correct but each club has those two or three drivers that will slam the door any chance any where they can because “it is legal”: Little thought goes into ‘is it wise or safe’. If the over lap is extended it will be much more difficult for the lead boat to know, so they will be motivated to hold their lane and make safe arc. This is racing not dodge’em. The fast guys are the one getting through the turn safely and it’s the slower ones that are getting slammed. Those are the ones we need to keep in the sport to have a sport. Sawing them off serves no purpose and hurts the Sport. I asked before and no one answered “What possible good for the Sport does permitting a dangerous maneuver provide? ” Do you want your 10 year old J kid or 16 year old A driver to get blown over in the first turn with 10 boats behind them just because it was legal? If we want to grow the Sport we should keep it sporty and make it safer and keep it fun.

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Announcement

The Silly Season

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment