The Silly Season

[dholt]

There's nothing wrong with current rule.
we don't want those overlap rules that pro and opc have which leads to LANE racing. Only way you can really pass is on outside in a turn with that type of overlap rule.
turn judges just need to make more calls

[pav225]

Legally, someone could start in lane 12 and saw everyone off on the way to the first turn? As long as their cockpit was at least in line with the other cockpits, it is considered legal. Correct?

Knowing the turn judges are inside the course, and based on angle of viewing, the outside boat could probably even be back a few feet and it would appear as cockpit to cockpit from the turn judges perspective.

A chop is never an easy call. Probably not enough get called, and some maybe shouldn't. I think John's idea was to help improve the safety of the sport and keep from having more broken equipment. I have fixed a ton of OPC boats in the past. Most of the crashes occurred in the corners where they allow cockpit to cockpit... I believe they went to cockpit to cockpit after the introduction of capsules, because the capsule blocked your side vision quite a bit.

If we adopt cockpit to cockpit, the outside boat can aim for pin 1, or even the last pin in the turn, if they chose. Regardless of how many boats are inside him, this would be perfectly legal, correct? I'm sure it would tick off the 11 drivers inside of him, but legally, he could do this. Probably something to consider.

[PittmanRacing]

Pav, I am not 100% sure of your question. I can tell you, it works in all other categories. If I understand what you are saying, if you are on the outside, and you have anyone on your inside cockpit to cockpit (btw - most use the judgement rule if you can see them next to you, give them a lane), you have to leave a lane. If they are behind, you have the right to take the lane. The decision the inside boat, who might be behind, has to decide for themselves what to do rather than the lead boat. Do I risk trying to squeeze through or do I slow down and yield the lane. Drivers can see someone on the inside or outside through the turn. You can't necessarily see them behind you through the whole turn, especially when in the middle of the turn. Btw, if I am ahead and involved in an incident, I don't what to get run over by someone behind me saying "sorry dude, I was looking behind me to make sure I remained at least one boat length ahead." Again, our current rule shifts most of the overlap decision to the lead boat. Such a decision through an entire turn is nearly impossible and dangerous to be looking for. The real issue, as previously mentioned, isn't entering the start of a turn as much as closing the gap once the turn has begun. I have seen many cases were the lead boat was easily one boat ahead entering the turn and the trailing boat never lets off the throttle, forcing the overlap after the first buoy. At a minimum, the one boat length should only be applied only to the entrance buoy IMHO. For the rest of the turn, look ahead and side to side...not behind.

[pav225]

I could use some clarity on this. Does 'cockpit to cockpit' mean that I can start on the very outside, and as long as no one is in front of me, I can legally aim for the entrance pin at turn 1?

[csh-2z]

Last year, Paul, I proposed a bow to stern rule for overlap for the same reason used to justify cockpit to cockpit. My reasoning was to limit to a minimum, the amount of time a lead driver has to look behind him. It is also much more obvious when an overlap is established. It puts more of the responsibility on the overtaking inside boat.

[csh-2z]

RULE 17 • BEARING AWAY
1. A boat shall not bear out of her course so as to hinder another in passing to starboard or port

[Big Don]

Hmmmm, Paul I have always been against the cockpit to cockpit, but the way you said it in your post has me thinking...

[CSR4C]

The one boat length came some time after '74-'75. I remember Fred Miller describing an overlap at the driver's meeting held at the downtown Dayton theater. Fred said 1 inch is enough , we called it Miller's inch!

[GrandpaRacer]

Smitty, It has been one boat length for the last 40 years, but I do not know when it started. In the early days props were deep and there was little rooster tail. Maybe that was why 1 boat was considered safe.

[Matt Dagostino]

I have agreed with the cockpit to cockpit rule forever! The PRO's use it and it works! It puts the pressure on the trailing boat to do the right thing and keeps the lead boat looking forward as they should be doing.....

[PittmanRacing]

Cockpit to cockpit is the rule used in all other categories. This shifts the decision making rule more towards the overtaking boat than just the lead boat. How can we realistically expect a lead driver, with all the spray to look forward, side to side, and behind at all times? If someone closes within one boat length after the turn has started, the lead boat should be looking ahead, especially if they are not in first place because it is in the turns that boats most likely go over. I have barely avoided boats and driver which were ejected due to mishap ahead of me. I imagine they appreciated I wasn't looking behind at that time (2nd to 3rd pin).

[Smitty]

When did the one boat-length rule get its start . . . maybe back in the years of step-hydros (Jacoby, Neal, etc.) (with their skidfins under the bottom) when they threw a lot less water up in the air behind the boats . . . ?? Maybe the mid-pack guys could actually see ahead somewhat when they went through a turn in those days.

Interesting to hear Mr. Runne's driver/turn-judge/referee perspective. But John (Runne or Adams), if you put too much pressure on the following driver to stay clear and safe, don't you tend to eliminate the guy who's trying to make an inside pass in the corner, which when you pull it off is one of the more satisfying moments of racing, and is applauded as fine driving by all who see it . . ??

With the way modern life is going, in another decade or two we'll have nothing but robotically-operated driverless raceboats (with dead-quiet electric motors, of course), but before that maybe there will be proximity-warning sensors in the boats, so the driver will know not to change lanes when the big bright red LEDs on the dash start flashing OVERLAP!! OVERLAP!! OVERLAP!!

[GrandpaRacer]

Opinions differ on the chop rule but I don’t think they differ on the safety of being chopped off at one boat length. It is not a safe maneuver! This is currently legal in Stock before the gun, on the run to the first turn, in the turns and in the straights(not legal between the exit pin and the start where lane changing is not legal). We all know it is not a safe maneuver but it is still legal to do it. The boat ahead by 1 boat length can just cut you off and ruin your race, your day and your weekend. Why should the rules allow this? If a boat is faster there is no reason to chop. So if you are tired of being chopped off with a legal maneuver at 1 boat length let your Commissioner know! If you are tired of having your stuff wrecked and being placed in a dangerous situation let your Commissioner know! If you want to race the whole weekend and have more fun let your Commissioner know. If you think being chopped at 1 boat length space is unsafe let your Commissioner know! This is the only way YOU as a racer can get this changed.
John Adams

[Big Don]

Howard I think that has been happening over the last 2 elections. Don't you? I know we will have some new, fresh, changing ideas out of this group. Yes, there are some of the veteran people still on there but I think this is a good group of people that can make things happen.

I'm glad to see Rick Sandstrom back on. I personally don't know Steve Compton but have heard good things about him. We have young and old. Some new faces...

I'm excited to see what this group can do. If 2 years from now nothing has changed, I may think different. But I know right now I'm very excited to see where we start heading.



2018/19 APBA Board of Directors

President Howie Nichols
Vice President Chris Fairchild
National Commissioner Charles D. Strang
Treasurer Steve Compton
Secretary Mary Williams
Legal Council R. Steven Hearn
Adam Allen
Kyle Bahl
Jerry Davids Sr.
Fred Hauenstein
Jean Mackay-Schwartz
John Runne
Mark Tate

Mark Wheeler
Category Rep. Jeff Brewster - Stock
Region Rep. Rick Sandstrom - Region 10

[hshawwpba]

Here is and idea quit electing the same people to run APBA, BOD, and the commissions.
New Ideas do not come from old thinking!
The newest Idea being floated is to make the Sidewinder engine restricted for J class, and eliminate or reduce the Merc. 25ss motor so the Sidewinder can dominate----- We already have the Yamato running in 7 different classes every weekend and both spectators on the beach don't know the difference and if asked they think it is the same class running over and over! Do we need to have the Sidewinder be the next engine to run in 5 or 6 different classes based on a restrictor size or weight ??
Here is some forward thinking --- why do we need 3 outboard commissions, the inboards don't have different commissions for their Stock, Modified, and Flat bottom classes. Make one commission called Outboards it make perfect sense in todays world when most of the racers cross over and run in all 3 current catagories of outboards. The regions can elect same # of commissioners based on participation but only 1 meeting would be required and everyone could attend 1 meeting to hear the ideas brought forward.
Discontinue the ability of category chairman to appoint people to the commissions, if a person is not elected by his/her region they need not be appointed to a commission.

What class did Albert Einstein run???