Class Realignment

[Tunnelman801]

Geeougee, Thank you for sharring your knowledge, with us, about the Yamato 80 engine. I also like the Y80 and we have three of them. I believe the SORC needs to keep all of the old Yamato engines competitive, in the 20SSH class, by restricting the conversion&hybrid 302 and the Y321, more. They need to remember that we have only the 20SSH class to run the Y80 in exempt Mod. classes.

[trident]

Doggone.
No wonder I am getting spit out the back of the pack every weekend
I've been running at 3/4 instead of 1/2 because I'm paranoid about overheating.
How much speed do you suppose this is costing me?
I am running a 102 restricted in 20ssh
I also have two 80's but can't get either one to run quite right
522-P

George, I've sent you several e-mails with no response... did your address change? Please drop me a note to tridentracing@new.rr.com

I'll get back to you...

Thanks.

[squirrelboydeluxe]

Sorry Jerry
Email sent

[reed28n]

Combining 20ssh and CSH is not practical and eliminating or reducing or down sizing is very un popular in a member run volunteer organization. (I can tell you first hand folks are passionate about their trailer box)

We need to promote our strong classes that we want to attract people to and steer people away from smaller classes. Let local clubs pick.

[Wakefield 2015]

We need to make this work for the serious racer and the sportsman racer alike. A "one-sized fits all" approach will not work.

[Matt Dagostino]

WOW..........look who got all wised up. Good stuff Mr Reed.

[csh-2z]

Personally, I would be in favor of having the Yamato 80 in the BSH class for three to five years. It would instantly make the class a national class. The Sidewinder would be the motor of choice and would have to dominate. The reason would be to kick start the class in regions that don't run BSH. The goal would be to try to transition the Y 80 drivers to the Sidewinder, that is why the three to five years is important. The end game must be known to all. The 80's should be phased out at some point. I know some members of my family are opposed to this idea, but I'm opposed to the class failing.

As far as the rest of the classes in Stock Outboard, it would be nice to reduce classes where there is duplication, but clubs have to survive also. It is very important, however that we guide newer members into classes that have a future rather than just older classes that may be struggling.

[ryan_4z]

I know I say this every year, but......

A-SW 15, Merc 15, OMC 15
B-SW 20 (unrestricted), Y80
C-102, 302, Merc 25
D-Tohatsu, Merc

Eight classes. Everyone races.



More importantly, put and end to HYDROBOUTS and bring back true RUNABOUT racing!

[Big Don]

Ryan with that structure could we bump entry fee lets say 10.00 and run 3 heats?

I know people get all hung up on entry fee's but it's the cheapest part of the weekend. It amazes me that if you bump entry fee 5.0010.00 how many scratch that second or third class. I just don't get it.

I'd spend 10.00 more for another heat.

[Tunnelman801]

Ryan & Reed, Why did you leave out Yamato 321? What classes will they run in? Or was the Y321,intentional left out?---William

[reed28n]

I left out the 321 because I left out the 303,304,305,306,307,308,309,310......318,319 and 320 - it is a model change by the manufacture. APBA is not required to make changes to the C class or the 20 class outside of its rules right now to accomodate a model change unless you see the new model dominate within the current rules. Pumping, drilling, cool tool etc. are all distractions from racers working to figure out what they need to run to compete. If your 321 doesn't cool at 1/2 then don't run it at the limit. Sheep are being herded into making external motor changes without changing set ups, making sure their bottom is flat, checking air trap depth, transom angle, trying different props, or checking internal clearances within the power head. This is racing and by its nature someone will figure it out and someone will be faster and parity will not exist. Until APBA buys back a super 102 or a known super 25 merc that dominates the class don't come after the rest of us for parity.

[squirrelboydeluxe]

Many thanks to deeougee for the volume he sent me in a pm- TONS of advice on everything from the finer points of Y80 rebuilding to getting the boat through the corner...it must've taken an hour to type all that! Thank you again Sir- I'd like to shake your hand one fine day.
Might I also add that IMHO getting rid of the Y80 would be a shame- it is to SO what the small block chevy is to sprint car racing...just my $0.02
522-P
PS what is a sissy fin? It sounds like something I could use

[csh-2z]

George, if you needed a cissy fin, it would have been on your boat. It's a runabout thing.

[ryan_4z]

If you really want to shorten the day, eliminate closed course runabout racing and run a grand prix instead.

[Big Don]

Ryan, assuming you are being somewhat sarcastic but...maybe we do need more marathons. Talk about time in the boat vs $$$$$ spent. Seems like a value proposition to me.

[ryan_4z]

Not at all sarcastic Don. We have no true runabout racing outside BSR and Marathon. Participation in closed course runabout classes is laughable at many local races.

[deeougee]

Don, been thinking about the marathon situation for awhile now also and adding up all the marathon races lost over the years. Marathon is the only way I would run runabout. Biggest bang for the buck. I'm wondering why marathon racing isn't more popular? It use to be big. Is there any marathon racing outside region 6 anymore? I would imagine a series could be built around marathon racing, especially with Top O being such a big race. Anyone have any thoughts on the marathon situation?

[mercguy]

The problem with any class restructure is... most probably agree that something should be done, but no one wants them to touch their class or classes.

I sent this one to Jeff Brewster a month ago. This is a combination of conversations I have had via emails, in person or phone with other racers. Not everyone is willing to post their feelings or thoughts as you can get blasted rather quickly on here. So being a commissioner I feel it is my responsibility to share others thoughts. Plus I don’t care if I get blasted.

I do think some of these have some merit and should be thought through. As I told Jeff, I do support the 25H one as it was mine as well as others.

Comments from others: (I do agree with some of them)
Our current class structure is broke. To many classes with very little participation.
Most classes are small at the local races and the day last way to long running 3 & 4 boat races.
It is boring and not a way to attract sponsors running 4 boats in a heat, nor new drivers or new race sites. How or why would anyone watching 3 boats run around want to get into this sport?
They are tired of having to be at the pits by 7AM and racing until after 6PM on most weekends. Then drive home until 1AM or later.
In some areas of the country they only push certain classes and with that, some classes will continue to struggle unless we do something. (I like the fact that this is what they do as it does not cause a watered down field of boats)
They hate having to be at the Nationals all week to watch weak/small classes. If we are going to be there all week make it exciting with good racing with larger fields with less classes.
We need to shrink our class structure. Get rid or combine any class that does not have at least 20 drivers with at least 3 races. This would help stop the throwing my buddy in my rig one day or one weekend to increase numbers.

Some actual suggestions I have heard this summer alone of those that I can remember.
Get rid of 25H
Get rid of 25R
Combine 25R & CSR by allowing 25R to run in CSR at the current 25R weights with the C’s.
Get rid of 20H
Allow 20H to race in CSH at their current 20H weights with the CSH.
Get rid of 45 in Stock Outboard
Either grow BSR or get rid of it. 20 boats in the Midwest does not make it a national class.
Allow Yamato 80’s to run in BSH to try and grow the class. If in 3 years we are not seeing growth get rid of class.
Make DSR a Marathon class only
Get rid of DSH
Make a 300 Runabout class. The sealed class has a lot of merit and we can see the Hydro class is continuing to grow. Let’s try it in runabout. Worse case it does not go like the hydro class, at least we can say we tried something to grow the sport.
Don’t get rid of anything and just make National classes versus local classes. There is no reason to have week-long nationals for classes with less than 20 boats nationally.
If we eliminate classes we could we potential do 3 over 2 every weekend for boat time or go to 3 heat racing.
(not sure on this statement, in BSOA we don’t run most of the classes being suggested to eliminate so our schedule would not get a lot shorter, our issues is we run some MOD/PRO classes also. It would eliminate 20H for sure & 25R sometimes)

With all that is said above, whatever we do we need to realize that in most areas of the country we need every entry. Let’s just say we did combine 20H & CSH. We now stand to lose entry fees based on the fact that many run both classes. Yes the 80’s could still run with the B’s but those with 300 series are now down to one class. I personally think anyone running both is doing it to race more and it now becomes less attractive to race. So as I see it we have to tread very carefully with any class elimination or combination. If a local club has 10 less entries can the race even stay afloat financially? What would that do to Region 10? I bet it would cost them 20 entries over the weekend.

Yes I do support getting rid of some classes but we need to be real careful. I personally (when I was younger) didn’t care if I was racing all day long and getting done after 8PM some nights. Had no problem getting home at 2AM and going to work in 3 or 4 hours. BUT, I have also come to realize that my type of personality when it comes to racing, is different than a lot of others. I know that we are the exception like many of you are, but this could be part of our demise if we don't change. We have to change with times and I don’t think our type of personality or mentality is the norm anymore. Plus as I get older (and fatter) it does take a toll on me.

why get rid of DSH? Its the best ride in stock outboard! Plus, it is growing in Reg10 again (2 more joining for next year)...........

[Big Don]

I think their reasoning was, it's not a national class, to be as close as I can to their comment it was... there are only 11 people that have run the class and the season is 3/4 over. It's mainly run in one state and that only 4 people ran it more than 6 times last year.

[Graham 18ce]

Alight...so what is the speed of 300SSH - about 61-62...
300SSR would be in the area of 59. I'm guessing based on motor weight and torque, this would be bigger than an A/B Racecraft, but probably smaller than the old CSR Racecraft.
What weight of driver could roll this up? And is Racecraft going to build one!
Can we make a no side fin rule!

[ryan_4z]

Wacusee Speedboats will build one!

[deeougee]

Hydro's are running 60, I would think a runabout would be about 56-58 on a CSR. The CSR's run 68+. You can roll up a CSR, I rolled up Butch's Wings and they were a big boat and I weighed 170-175 lbs.

[reed28n]

Please dont suggest that we would keep a new racer by putting them in the worst ride in the sport, a 100 lbs motor with a two blade propeller on an 11 foot boat. ugh

[Flatiron]

I'm all in for a 300 sealed type class for C size Runabout's. I would order a engine tomorrow.

[DeanFHobart]

I'm all in for a 300 sealed type class for C size Runabout's. I would order a engine tomorrow.

That is a great idea. What would be the weight? The 300 SSH is 400 lbs,,,,,,,,,.. Correct? Maybe the 300SS Runabout would be the same.

[Flatiron]

I believe 300SSH is 420 lbs. As far as weight For a 300 runabout clas's I would probably go 440 as it seems like most of them have a lot of ballast added to make the CSR weight of 475