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I recently purchased a 11' 3'' hydroplane boat that I am planning on restoring. The previous owner had sanded it down getting ready to do some light glass work & then paint. That was as far as he got & then stored it. The boat has fiberglass on the outside. Does anyone know what model boat this is or can tell me anything about it? What should I do to restore the boat. It appears to be missing the floor. Around what hp do you think this boat is rated for?
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looks like a Hal Kelly design- possibly a KG7 or Mark 25 would be a good vintage choice for this hull.
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Could you please link me the KG7 and Mark 25 I can't find them on the internet thanks.Comment
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The KG7 was marketed by Mercury as the ''Super Ten Hurricane'' in 1951. It had the green gravity-feed fuel tank and differed from earlier Merc ''10-hp'' engines in having an 8-port reed cage (instead of a 4-port cage) and all die-cast powerhead parts (no sand-cast crankcase or other powerhead parts).
The Mark 25 was marketed for at least three years starting in 1956, if I recall correctly. The 1st year had an 18-horse rating. Subsequent years had 20-hp ratings with little or no change to the powerhead. Fuel delivery was from a remote tank thru the same fuel pump used by the 4-cylinder Mercs of the same era. The powerhead had a heavier-duty crankshaft than the KE7 (Lightning), KF7 (Super Ten), KG7, Mark 20, and Mark 15 -- similar to but not identical with the Mark 20H crank. The Mark 25 crank was produced in 2 different styles: one with a needle-bearing center main similar to the 20H crank, and the other with a plain bronze center main as in the previous KG and Mark engines, only bigger in diameter. The Mark 25 crank shared the same larger taper into the ''large-taper'' flywheel as on the 20H. This taper persisted thru later engines such as the Mark 28 & 28A and early Merc 200s . . . all of a rather robust design.Last edited by dwhitford; 10-05-2016, 07:46 PM.
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Kind of looks like a Hal Kelly FooLing. If it is a Kelly design it is definitely later than the Airborne. The stringers are different than what Hal did. With the Airborne I built I did the framework the way it is done here not the way Hal did it. If it is a FooLing design the decking and cockpit have been changed from the original.
​ I don't know why I get these stupid symbols at end of some of my posts.
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​            kk
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I don't remember the exact years but I believe the Jinx was designed in 1953. My dad built one and I lake raced it for several years in the late 50's and early 60's. The Airborne was designed again I believe in 1954 and was a subsequent design to the Jinx. I built a couple of these, one I ran for a few years until it was so beat up and repaired so much as to not be so heavy and really not useable. I built a second using framework design more like current trends not at all like Hal Kelly's way of building his boats. Unfortunately it was destroyed in a fire on Friday along with a MK 25 Rat I ran on it. I though the boat being discussed looked like pictures of a FooLing I have seen. I have never seen a FooLing in person so it was only a guess. The overall look looked similar but construction is completely different but actually similar to what I did on my second Airborne. -
Sorry to hear you lost your Airborne Karl, Mine is my slowest & worst handling boat but is different than the racers & alot of fun -
When you build an outboard racing runabout, the chine-panel plywood goes onto the completed framework first. Then the bottom plywood goes on, overlapping the chine panels. Next the side-panel plywood goes on, then the decking.
When building a Foo-Ling, however, you don't fair in the top strake for the chine into the overall framework to provide a smooth transition between the chine and side panels. Instead, you let the strake protrude and fair it so that the side-panel plywood covers the strake top-to-bottom. This permits the bottom of the strake to ''stick out'' from the chine panel, providing the air-trap quality and lifting-handle capability referred to elsewhere in this thread.
Far as I know, this construction regimen is unique to Foo-Ling and its stretch version for C & D, the Madcap. This construction was controversial in its day (1956-57) but never ruled illegal, and the boats were considered excellent ''roll-up'' runabouts . . . the Foo-Ling with Champ Hot Rods, but not at all great with the 20-25-pound heavier Merc 20H Conversion engines.
I wish I could include a photo with a comment, but I don't know how. If you go to the Boat Sport website and look up the plans for Foo-Ling, Page 2 of the plans will reveal the top-strake chine construction that I described above.Last edited by dwhitford; 12-04-2016, 06:38 PM.
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Sorry for the double posts and stupid symbols I don't know what is causing it
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How do you sit in this boat? Do you kneel? Also what is that front section for?Comment
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You kneel.
In the early days of Stock Outboard racing, (1940s & '50s), the runabouts were called ''utilities''. Your boat would've been a BU -- ''Class B Utility''. The concept was that racing utilities were just fast versions of what could conceivably be family ''utility'' boats. A rule was on the books in the 1950s permitting race officials who were skeptical about a utility being perhaps too ''racy'' to require the driver to prove the boat's utilitarian nature. In AU and BU, the driver needed to put two passengers in that front cockpit and make a lap around the course. For CU and DU, the requirement was for 3 passengers.
In the late 1950s, drivers could cover that front seating area with either fabric or a removable wooden cover, but it needed to be removable so that inspectors could verify that the seat was in place. Covering that front area enabled the boats to handle better in the wind.
In the early 1960s, the passenger rule was deleted, the ''utilities'' were renamed ''Stock Runabouts'' and they could be built fully decked over just like the alky ''Racing Runabouts''. So ended a foolish chapter in Stock Outboard history. -
It will handle better at speed if you kneel, my B is for fun so I made a fold down seat back that can be laid flat to kneel if want. I'm used to kneeling in the hydro's but that's different, the cockpit sides are close & you're kind of locked in. the open area in the old utilities leaves alot of room. I sit leaned back with the wheel & deadmans at comfortable distance while my feet go on footrests. If you do it this way it's important not to sit with your legs under the dash or steering cables, If it went wrong you'd want to be free to leave.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...5/DSCN0657.jpg
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You kneel so you can shift your weight about depending on conditions. For a lake boat you might want to install a seat but in a race boat you kneel that's part of the go fast experience. You need good knees, a good foam cushion is needed. The front opening was placed there from the early days of racing where utility boats had a front seat area and were used as race boats, tradition kept it there. Now days it is gone in the runabout class.Originally posted by Kentfielddude View Post"Keep Move'n" life is catching up!
No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session.Comment
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Originally posted by Kentfielddude View Post
The boat is built from plans, maybe Science & Mechanics or Popular Mechanics. I had the same boat but bought it already assembled. I ran a MK 25 Mercury on it. Fun boat but not really suitable for competition. I also ran a KG7 on it. Both engines had stock lower units.Comment
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Looking to buy a red Mark 25 or the E model but not sure if the E model is to heavy. Also what is the difference between the 25 L model?Comment
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My former Merc Dealer boss and I have good reason to suspect that some of the rather uncommon Mark 25E models had higher compression ''padded'' cylinders like KG-4s and Mark 20Hs. The non-electric Mark 25s did not have such cylinders because they'd have been harder to crank for most ''tourists''. The electric-start Mark 25Es, however, would've eliminated that concern.
If you have a chance to check a Mark25E, bend a length of soft solder into a 90-degree crook that you can insert thru the spark-plug hole. Rotate the engine enough so that the piston is not at top dead center. Point the crook toward the exhaust-port side of the cylinder. Rotate the engine up to and past thru top dead center. Carefully remove the length of solder. If it's mashed at all flatter, you have a (desirable!) padded-cylinder block.
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'L' might be long shaft? I would not buy a long shaft engine for that race boat because the prop would be too deep with a reasonable transom height and there is extra weight with the long shaft. The E model is heavier due to flywheel, starter and on-board battery.Originally posted by Kentfielddude View Post
If a vintage engine is not that critical to you consider a service Merc 200 (22 c.i.) They have standard lower units not racing units but easier to maintain for lake use. They made many of them 1960 thru 1980 + and they are great engines if you find a good one. Some of the models have better ignitions.so have too research that. In the 73 and on they came out with CDI ignitions that are great as long as electronics hold out. Earlier used point ignitions that are not as costly to service but these also have their issues. Old stuff is always needing something. What ever you get check it out well before laying out the $$$. Need to check on water pump, gear lube, carb condition, spark, compression and other.
Keep searching, go to an AOMCI meet and look for engines there, lots of good stuff and advice:
http://www.aomci.org/
also check out this site on the vintage Merc engines:
http://www.Johnsoldmercurysite.com"Keep Move'n" life is catching up!
No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session.Comment
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MK25L is indeed a long shaft engine. Shouldn't get one of these but if you can, worth some money. Very few of these were made. MK25E's are not very common either but they are out there but parts for the starting system will be very hard to find. A standard MK 25 would be a lot better. Personally I would look for a earlier green tanker. A lot easier to hook up throttle, steering etc. A KG7 would be a excellent but are a little pricey at times. I recently found one in good condition for $100. A KE7 would be easier to find and almost as fast as a KG7. A later model Merc would also be a good choice as was already said.
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Go to the aomci.org web site of the Antique Outboard Motor Club, Inc.Originally posted by Kentfielddude View Post
You should be able the find a Mark 25 or KG7 or whatever you may want. If one is not listed for sale you could call one of the officers of the club and they would direct you to the members who have these motors. Or, just call Frank Erion at 269-720-1337... He has lots of motors and parts. He is a Mercury Racing Motor specialist.sigpic
Dean F. Hobart
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Just got a speedometer for my boat.Comment
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I remember those. They were notoriously inaccurate = optimistic. A friend, Alden Merrick, had a setup for recalibrating those and helped some of us 1000 Island kids from his dock on the head of Murray Island. Alden had won the last (?) Albany-to-New York marathon in 1950 with a Big Four (50-horse) Evinrude on a big 48-mph Raveau runabout, which he kept meticulously for his shopping trips to Clayton with his wife.
''I keep the rig in 'water-ski' mode for those shopping trips,'' he once quipped, ''Only a 44-mph setup.''
Another time Alden mentioned that he was challenged to an impromptu race by some hot shot with one of the brand-new 6-cylinder 60-horse Mercs.
''I played him on for a few hundred yards,'' Alden said, ''And then just opened the Big Four up. Last I saw of him''.
Alden's speedo-setting rig was set up to an air-compressor source, which he could precisely control. You teed your Airguide into Alden's overall plumbing in tandem with a Keller speedo, the standard of the day. Alden cranked up the air pressure in increments and observed both the Keller and Airguide readings.
My buddy, Steve's, Airguide varied all over the map, both above & below the Keller ''standard''.
''We're trying to go a real 40 mph,'' Steve said.
So Alden set Steve's speedo to be the most accurate at 40. He did this with needle-nose pliers on the shaft of the Airguide's speedo needle, little-by-little, until he got it right.
The best Steve & I ever saw from his 14' Plasticraft & Mark 55 fishing engine jacked up as high as it would go was 39-1/2 mph on Alden's re-calibrated Airguide . . . which tells you just how hard it was to go fast with a family rig in 1956. Still Steve's rig with 6 of us kids on board could motor past almost any outboard rig on the River then . . . at about 33 mph.
Ditch the Airguide except for cosmetic reasons and use a GPS device -- as racers do now -- instead.Last edited by dwhitford; 10-18-2016, 07:18 PM. -
As long as you get a steady needle reading it will be good for Relative readings as you change things to see the changes in speed. These gages are most accurate in the mid range of the scale rather than at the ends. Yours stops at 50 and that is low for the speeds in the 40- 45 mph area. Better would have been a 65 mph gage. For accurate (debatable) absolute total speed it needs to be calibrated against a standard. I have calibrated them using air pressure values vs speed with excellent results. The steady needle is related to the depth of the pick up, to shallow and air enters to deep and excessive drag, shoot for pick up hole about 2 inches below bottom at left rear of the transom where the bottom is flat.
A GPS is a better tool but $$.
In my race days there were no GPS so I had a calibrated water pick up speedometer. But my true test was a measured distance (about 1500 ft) and a stop watch so an average speed was calculated over that distance. Not the same as instantaneous like a GPS or water pick up but between that and the water pick up speedo it was adequate for set ups.
Water pick up was good visual for seeing the needle speeds around the turns and acceleration, -
Got it for cosmetic reasons. I will use my phone for accurate GPS speeds.
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