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In your opinion, what were some of the biggest issues with the 25SSH class. More importantly, what was the cause of its slow decline in popularity?
Thank you,
Ron M.
Thank you,
Ron M.
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The class is being mostly run with obsolete 30 year old engines. That's the major problem. The Sidewinder 20 engine is available and is legal in the 25SSH class. While it's not going to out gun a top 25 merc (IE Jeff Brewster) on a big course, they are quick enough on small courses. Two SW20 engines were run at nationals this year, one was me. I finished 2nd with a heat win, but lost on time to Brewster. Last year the 25ssh nats winner was Ryan Runne with a SW20.
While I did run 25SSH at nationals it was the only time all year I will run the class.Kyle Bahl
20-R
"He didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you, he rubbed you, and rubbin' son is racin'!" -
25SSH is dominated by an old engine no longer available. It's expensive to get into the class with a new engine...unless someone is selling their Merc. A SW alone is twice the cost of what I paid for my entire CSH rig, including the trailer. Nice class (although not too popular in my area of the woods), but I'm not plunking down $5 grand for just an engine when that same money can put me into two other classes with some change to spare.Dane Lance
700-P
CSH/500ModComment
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First off the boats were too small. Mercury was taking trade ins on Y80's and the 25XS was too fast for the 20ssH boats. The 2 major issues with the motor was the flywheel weight which was causing handling problems then breaking crankshafts, too heavy, too light, then they got it right. The rewinds were also falling apart from vibration cracks. Nothing terrible, but they got a bum rap from a few issues at the start. After Mercury stopped the Challenge series, IE-no more $$$ payouts for racing, a lot of drivers just quit running them. Most said they didn't like how out of control the boats were, again, most were using way to small of a boat. IMO it was one of the best, most reliable stock engine I have run in 30 years from 1985 to 2014.Comment
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It was a great ride but not for novices. I remember when I started racing DSH I was surprised to find it much less scary than my 25ssH! The 25XS that I have will be mine forever. It is the coolest looking engine ever made for racing and was a real race engine, low CG and tons of power and reliable. I just like looking at it and reliving the many memories. The best memory was me and Steve Warnack (may he rest in peace) racing at Lawrence Lake! He won the Nationals that year and I won at Lawrence setting the new record at the time. I sure would like to be young again!
John Adams
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So would we all like a time reversal machine. I ran the 25ss class in the 70's in Region 5 even with the 1st slower version 25ss and lots of week ends of racing (incl the Grapefruit Circuit), very popular with a filled field, a blast class and super competitive with the likes of: Jeff Hutchins (RIP), Bunky Bowerman, Fred Townsend (RIP), Marshall Eldridge son, David Rawson and many others. Good things don't last forever.
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Really cool comments about the 25SSH class with the 25XS Mercury. My 1-2/3 Mile Course Record is still in the books. 72 MPH Straightaway Speeds, in a 9-1/2' Dart Craft... 69" Afterplane. 66.372 MPH Average. I was actually averaging over 67 MPH, but I didn't break the clock. What a ride. Of course, as John said, that was when we were younger. The Prop Shaft was 1-1/8" above the bottom. Did it go straight?....... No.
5 Mile/3 Lap* Closed
CourseAPBA 66.372 9/13/1986 Yelm, WA Ultra Dart Dean
HobartDean
HobartDart
CraftMercury sigpic
Dean F. Hobart
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I watched that race both days. After you blew over on the front stretch Sunday, I said, "that's the class for me"! I think it was 1998 or 1999 on the 1 & 2/3 at Lawrence I averaged 66.1...so close.Last edited by ricochet112; 09-24-2016, 06:03 AM.Comment
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How fast did they go on a regular race course?Comment
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We could run a smaller boat most likely because the Mercury Gear Case was better. And, I think the motor was a little lighter. The weight was 395 lbs, as if I remember.Originally posted by GrandpaRacer View Postsigpic
Dean F. Hobart
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[QUOTE=DeanFHobart;n449506]Really cool comments about the 25SSH class with the 25XS Mercury. My 1-2/3 Mile Course Record is still in the books. 72 MPH Straightaway Speeds, in a 9-1/2' Dart Craft... 69" Afterplane. 66.372 MPH Average. I was actually averaging over 67 MPH, but I didn't break the clock. What a ride. Of course, as John said, that was when we were younger. The Prop Shaft was 1-1/8" above the bottom. Did it go straight?....... No.
/QUOTE]
With the prop shaft 1-1/8" above bottom what size prop (dia x pitch & # of blades) did that allow you to run if you recall? That is crazy high."Keep Move'n" life is catching up!
No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session.Comment
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I don't know that I would say that there are any major problems with the class as far as handling, reliablility or engines to be bought even if used. As many who race in our neck of the woods know, we have plenty of them in our trailer. There are also a pile of 25xs motors that are still currently running and competitive in 25ssr. If half of those engines were put on hydros on the race course we could easily have great numbers at our races. The reliability is by far the best of any engine I have run. Have we had issues here and there, of course, but most of the time that is a bonehead rigging screw up that was likely due to too many cold ones the night before. We have seen that those who do there homework with the Sidewinders can be competitive and run out front. I know I drove my a** off trying to catch Kyle at the nationals and I couldn't get around him and I like to think we run pretty competitively in the class and have done quite a bit of our own homework. Are you going to run out front without testing.....no but we didn't in the class either. Are you going to run out front in CSH without blueprinting and lots of testing...no. Needless to say I love the class and I haven't had anyone we put in a boat say they didn't like the ride.
As far as some of the issues noted above that may have led to the decline the control issues were when running at a height of 0 or above the bottom. The current rule is 1/2". We used to run fins on the back of the boat to help this but have since removed them as the handling issue is not there running at 1/2" below the bottom. While I have seen one crank break which was on my fathers runabout years ago I have not seen that recently. I have seen far more flywheels pass their drivers recently with other motors. As far as the cracking rewinds, this is still an issue if you run a service engine rewind. I doubt this has anything to do with the decline of the class but it is a common problem with the engines.Last edited by Moon child; 09-24-2016, 11:38 AM.Dave W. Young
95-D
"Roll it up or roll it back on the trailer"Comment
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The class downfall had a lot to do with a couple guys being really serious about it while most others were just content to just race without serious work. A lot was learned to discover the best blocks- not chrome or Mercosil but ones that ran the best and just as important, the best carburetor- stuff that was best discovered on the dyno rather than on the boat. Matt D'Agostino best exploited this during the Merc Challenge days and later Dell Snyder and Joe Zolkoske were the guys to beat. As they faded from active racing, Jeff Brewster took over.
A 25 boat started off as a BSH boat but evolved to be very close to a CSH Yamato boat but with less lift because the Merc gearcase didn't push the front of the boat down like the klunky Yamato case did- especially when the restrictor place was removed and gave a bit more power.Comment
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[QUOTE=ZUL8TR;n449521]And, this was with the small skeg gearcase. The propellers were Mercury high rake cleavers, about 7" + Diameter and 12" - 13" + Pitch. 16:21 gear ratio. These propellers were re worked by Steve Vincent.Originally posted by DeanFHobart View Post
You had to run an oval track, because with the counter clock wise rotating propeller the boat would pull to the left and would not go straight.sigpic
Dean F. Hobart
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Originally posted by Team B&H View Post
All good points. On the West coast, 25SSH and 25SSR died out when the Mercury Challenge ended.Comment
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