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A house divided will soon fall....just look at what happened to open wheel racing a number of years ago when they split off into two seperate series.....who can name the last few Indy 500 winners? And to think open wheel racing used to be bigger then Nascar. I hope the OPC group re joins APBA.
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[QUOTE=kampenracing;n443140]Originally posted by pav225 View Post
Oldest, most clout worldwide and biggest. Most R10 races have more racers than all of the members of NBRA combined.Comment
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............comparing APBA and NBRA/AOF is apples vs. oranges. NBRA and such are basically small Outboard only Clubs that run a handful races a year unlike APBA that has many Categories of powerboat racing and hundreds of 'sanctions' per year it approves. It is unfortunate however NBRA pays $1400 per weekend for insurance through K and K and we APBA Stock Outboard clubs pay $2550 per weekend!Last edited by Matt Dagostino; 02-19-2016, 07:27 AM. -
I'm sure the world wide clout really helps you out a lot. I know APBA is the oldest and the biggest. But the most relevant I tend to disagree. Obviously your region does a great job in putting on races and getting entries, but we do only run 10 classes at most of our races. Our clubs our different because we have different focuses, but that's ok, what you guys do works for you and what we do works great for us.
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It's interesting that NASF is offering a marketing forward option to it's members.
What most people don't realize here is that NASF is made up of F1 Teams/Clubs. The leadership is no different than what was in place 1 day before the announcement. I can also tell you that F1 has had carte blanche to operate any way it sees fit with regards to rules and regulation by the OPC Category and APBA. Not sure what they are trying to accomplish here but APBA has NEVER been a roadblock for this group. I'm sure the grass is greener on the other side though!
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[QUOTE=ricochet112;n443210]It seems at least once a year we have to hear which organization is the best. Most people on this board have never been to a NBRA race so they don't know much about how we conduct a race. Well we have raced APBA NBRA and the old AOF and there isn't much difference in how the races are put on. What more than anything who decides where they are going to race is what is in there area they live. I remember years ago Oklahoma club dropped out of the AOF and went to the APBA. This lasted about 1 year there just wasn't enough racers in the Midwest to support them and they came back to AOF. I will give the APBA credit for being the oldest, most clout and biggest but one thing the NBRA has them beat hands down is prize money in the stock and Mod classes.Originally posted by kampenracing View PostComment
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[QUOTE=Larry M;n443224]Originally posted by ricochet112 View Post
The biggest difference is the INSURANCE and Sanction Fees..............$1500 for a NBRA race vs. $2950 for a APBA Stock Outboard weekend event!! Prize money and tow money is a function of a guy like Doc Miller hustling and finding it and will come and go. But the fixed sanctioning body costs are what drives the clubs!! We in APBA/SORC need to focus on the issues of it's member clubs and reducing APBA fixed costs since Outboarders live and die by it's member clubs!
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It's true I work at it. Thanks Matt, being retired helps.Comment
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Thanks Matt, being retired helps to spend the time it take to write and shake hands, till someone gives you money.Comment
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Doc does a GREAT job getting prize money and sounds like good crowds too. Awesome job Doc!
Our friends Mike Mackey and John Korbus raced in Centralia, IL. They were warm welcomed and had a great time!Comment
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Very sad post in my opinion....move over APBA....there's a new sheriff in town? Really? I do not know a whole lot about car racing...but I do know the history of both open wheel racing and stock car racing in the United States...Nascar was founded to bring some semblance of order to a chaotic series of races being conducted in the 50s with stock cars....rules needed to be established, etc etc etc. Now, aside from F1, they are the biggest sanctioning body for racing (money wise) in the world. And here we are, with a few Tunnel boats and some pro boats thinking they can do a better job sanctioning races then APBA. And would I be out of line to say that maybe the people with the most expensive tunnel boat rigs are the most unhappy with things? I bet not....why do you think Nascar was formed? Bring some national order to the chaos that was reining over stock cars....and here we are in 2016 with groups leaving APBA because they thing they can do things better.....So instead of working within APBA, thru commisioners, board of directors, you name it....they decide to leave and go it alone. How sad.Comment
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I'm not sure that I should be entering in to the fray but what the heck I will anyway. I have been a member of APBA off & on since 1953. I'm an advocate of that organization. Having said that there are many issues within it's structure especially with less & less racers that causes concerns by many if not all it's members. I am also a big fan of the USTS & applaud it's organization with it's leader Todd Brinkman for their success since seceding from APBA. Now, you keep hearing about the big differences in insurance costs. Yes, there might be differences, especially within APBA where all categories will be sharing the anticipated high costs due to expected law suits, but that is not the only issue. I don't know much about NBRA, but from what I read they are successful as well. Now, bottom line, neither group has to pay a sanction fee. I'm not aware of current APBA costs, but sanction fees can be several thousands of dollars. What do you get for that as a driver at APBA racers? Well high points, eligibility for Hall of Champions & APBA Honor Squadron, and other Championship awards. Is it worth the extra race day costs plus membership costs, Maybe to some but not to others. The pull out of Formula 1 & SPORT is confusing as well because now you have OPC racers that will split the category as well. Not sure why they did so, but I can't help but believe it was the result of the same reasons USTS seceded & NBRA are so successful.APBA is good, basically our founding organization for Boat Racing in the US & perhaps Canada. With the high costs to even begin to race, operational costs is the principal reason, in my belief, that the seceding continues not defections.
Before anyone posts what they think about the reasons for the continued departure of certain groups from APBA, think through the process. I think that APBA should continue to be the overseer of Boat Racing, but each separate body, SO, MOD, PRO, OPC, etc. should have their separate franchises & control their own destiny. Insurance rates should be based on the risk occurrences of each individual category.All administrative costs to be incurred by each Franchise. All administrative issues should be the responsibilty of each category at their expense or handled by volunteers. There should also be a small Franchise cost to APBA for each category. Each category makes & amends their appropriate rules with membership in the individual category voting yeah or nay. No need to have a BOD approve what the category wants.
As Scotty Smith, deceased, a racer from region 4 named his boat "NUFF SAID" as controversy will now begin.
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John:
This is one of the only posts on this subject that make a lot of sense.
The only thing APBA can offer (IMHO) is the HOC which is recognition by your boat racing peers. The other stuff like the US1 Decal is almost worthless these days. What is it worth to have it when all it means is you possibly attended the most races and consequently scored the most points? If APBA was in charge you might also have to have it on your boat also.
If APBA wanted to really try to get the categories back that have left they would charge a very small annual fee for your "franchise" fee (and I mean very small, maybe 250.00 annually max) and this would allow a HOC induction for those categories.
The rest of the things APBA does for what a category pays for a sanction fee can and is being done by the category for a lot less money. If you who are reading this do not believe it just look at the categories that have gone this way, and also look and compare the USTS and other websites with the APBA site and that is after 125K being spent on the APBA site.
One more advantage for those categories would be to bring back the UIM umbrella. This might make a difference for sponsorship money for the WC races, and also the running of the race and furnishing the officials which was the USTS.
I doubt these changes will ever take place for two reasons. First of all they make too much sense, and too much power would be lost by the APBA Board to do the right thing for the boat racing community.Last edited by bill van steenwyk; 02-20-2016, 04:01 PM.
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- Feudalism - New World Encyclopedia
www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Feudalism
Feudalism is a political system of power dispersed and balanced between king and nobles. This is a weak system and it refers to a general set of reciprocal legal and ...
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- Feudalism - New World Encyclopedia
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- Feudalism - New World Encyclopedia
www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Feudalism
Feudalism is a political system of power dispersed and balanced between king and nobles. This is a weak system and it refers to a general set of reciprocal legal and ...?
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- Feudalism - New World Encyclopedia
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To me, I look at NBRA as one big "club". Do they have any little individual clubs? I don't know. But, in my mind they are one big happy family of racers who travel a ton of miles in the middle of our great country. APBA is an "Association" of all manner of 'clubs'. Cripes, we've got Jet Skiis; tunnels; SLuTs (err ahh Super Lite Tunnels.. Tohatsu powered I might add!!); Jersey Speed (talk-about wild!!!); Capsules; RC models; U-Name-it... APBA's got it.
So, what's the problem, really? Huh? Take your pick fer crissakes.
Here amongst us posters, mostly SO & MO people spread across the entire US of A, mostly North of the Mason/Dixon line. We have a proliferation of classes making up 3 & 4 boat parades. We have strong R10, R6, R1 clubs... but NONE of them are going out and hitting up SPONSORS for races. In case you miss my point, "SPONSORS EQUATE TO MONEY". hear that? NBRA seems to have broken-the-code , it's called TOW MONEY.
We here in APooBaa haven't figured that out yet. Maybe we need to hire Doc Miller or whoever NBRA uses. Sanction fees, membership dues, in APBA do seem a little out of line. But, if our "CLUBS" would figure a way to go out and beat up the puckerbrush and get some SPONSOR money, that might just help things.
I'm almost done here. In the process of "figur-ing out" the above... WE might just conclude that WE need to make some changes in the way WE are organized. Meaning SO & MO and all the attending classes might just need to be given a shot in the balls. ....soda-speak.
Alex
gotta get the steaks on the grill !!Comment
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I'm a crew guy on one of the people affected by this. I have a couple of questions about the "Sheriff" I'm concerned that the rules will be inforced as needed with out reguard to a rule book.If they are inforced that way what recource would we have against there judgements. Who would we protest or Appeal this to? I guess the first thing is What are the rules and where and when can we read them? Or its it a we will tell what they are?
I guess i'm worried about getting a fair shake like we know we got when it was APBA!
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There is a rule book https://www.nasfracing.org/ follow the tabs across the top of the website
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First, my comments are those of a guy racing boats that rarely exceed 95 on the back straight ( I'm lucky to see 84). I clicked on the "rules" tab and read the NASF rules. Pretty much just like APBA rules. Sounds like NASF have put their heads into this. And, I see "J-stock" listed. But, I don't see them addressing Stocks & Mods as we in APBA know them. I just can't quite imagine how NASF is going to deal with our abomination of classes in SO & MO in APBA. To me, down here at the grass-roots and lily-pad level, I don't see how NASF is going to fix our warped-frame. Lowered sanction/insurance/entry fees are not going to fix things here in water-lily ville. NBRA on the other hand might have something closer to what NSF might take on. Having attended the recent Nat'l meeting, I have once again met the enemy... and it R us.Comment
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