stock divisionals, nationals qualifier thoughts

[Tim Weber]

I had a phone call with another racer about a nationals qualifier based on winning the divisionals. We came to a conclusion that this should be eliminated
and that only the previous years champion being given the qualifier.

The thinking was in some classes, you may only have 8 or 9 slots available at the nationals. The thought was if there are more spaces open, we may have a larger turnout.

Is it possible that the 8 boat minimum may be sort of fudged for the qualifier once in a while?

I'd rather see the best 12 in the finals from all over the country.

Tim

[spud62w]

Tim. It was that way years ago not sure why it got changed back to the way it is now. I think everyone should race there way into the show. You were good last year, show me how good you are this year.

[Howie Nichols]

That is on the agenda for the Detroit Meeting

[Matt Dagostino]

What is your position on this one Howie?? Also do you think the AX Classes should qualify from the Divisionals?? Just a random thought

[JWarren]

I don't race much stock outboard and whenever I do it's to help someone in a club get there! If you know what I mean. I agree with the statement, your were good last year show me what you got this year! Have a great racing year everyone. See you in a turn soon! Jimmy

[Matt Dagostino]

Jimmy.........i have seen 'last minute entries' even at the Nationals (Both MOD and Stock Classes) to make the minimum boat count to get the 'title'. It is not illegal. If a club can get 25-30 extra entries at a divisionals that qualifies you for the Nationals and it is done legally go for it. This is not 1980's anymore. We need local racing and boat count!

[Matt Dagostino]

Other side of the coin................the Divisionals under the existing format creates a LARGE race for the Club and and region putting it on. We need to continue to create better LOCAL racing and not just focus on the National Championship. The Divisionals help draw boats and makes for a important race. Let's support our local clubs and not worry so much about the National Championship race. It will always draw plenty of boats whether 8 slots or 11 slots are open. The SORC and MOD Commissions need to worry about local clubs and events and the National Championships will be fine as they are now.

[JWarren]

Matt don't get me wrong I have done this for mod racers as well, I think we have all been guilty of helping our friends once or twice. This is about what Tim is saying, and that is a good point about having more slots at a national. Howie said this is on the agenda so let's see how the apba rules this.

[Herb Lanphear]

I agree with both Tim and Matt, so let's incentivize the attendees for the Divisionals to recieve double or triple points which would help the boat count for the local club, but have no qualifier for the Nationals. I believe there are just as many racers ineterested in chasing the points as there are for qualification to the Nationals.How many times have you seen the Divisional winner not go to the Nationals.Let's face it, the fast guys are going to the Nationals whether they win the Divisionals or not. By having 11 spots to open, you may attract the middle to rear of the pack racers into the mix, just a thought!

[Matt Dagostino]

Herb...........i respectively disagree. We already offer double points for Divisionals and have for a million years and there is no proof that offering more spots at the Nationals draws more boats. Just my observation.

[Big Don]

This topic seems to go around and around every few years.

But let’s just look at the facts.

Divisionals already get double points.

Do people really make the decision on whether or not to go to the nationals based on the fact that there is 9 spots open so I’m not going, but if there was 11 I would go? I find that hard to believe.

The large majority of drivers don’t chase points, roughly 14% race enough to get their 14 races in by class. Heck if you combine a drivers classes all together it’s still only 23.5% that race 14 times. (so someone like Matt ran 33 times between all his classes)

[csh12M]

I don't decide on spots, but I did decide this year on my outcome at the Divisionals. If I would of won CSR or CSH I would have made the trip - fly out for finals. Since I did not win either, I stayed home. I do think the Divisionals with qualifiers has some influence on who goes. Tater saved me $4K

I think both sides of this argument are valid, hence why it changes back and forth every 10 years. MHRA polled the issue at the last club meeting and it was pretty much 50/50. We told our commissioners to do whatever they felt was best. New people, new ideas and direction.

[Matt Dagostino]

'I agree with Big Don' and that's saying something. Dean makes a good point that a competitive Divisionals is a good yardstick to see how well you are running! I have always thought the Nationals is just as much a 'social' decision as a competitive one. Hence i am not so convinced more spots is a real draw.

[dholt]

I have never, since began driving in 1977, heard someone say..."I'm not going because there are only 9 spots open instead of 11". I have seen people show up who won the divisionals, who otherwise rarely, if ever, attend a Nationals.
It's a week long trip...sometimes very far from your home. Can be very expensive. You're going based on several reasons. The least of which is how many slots are open. If you believe you can qualify with 11 slots...then you believe you can qualify with 8.
And the Divisionals has GREATLY increased particpation for local clubs due to the fact the winner gets a qualifying spot. LOCAL clubs need the entries. Take the qualifying spot away and watch how much participation drops for the Divisionals. Conversely, it won't greatly increase Nationals particpation. And it all honesty, the only classes which are greatly affected anymore are CSH, 20ssH and MAYBE ASH.

[modracer7b]

In 1966, I lost only one race, the divisionals in ASR. At the time, I am pretty sure the divisionals were giving two qualifiers and with the previous champion spot, 11of the 12 spots were accounted for. I traveled from Boston, MA to Prineville Oregon knowing that only 1 open spot was guaranteed available. I went because I felt I was the best that year and would win if nothing went wrong. I went and won as I expected to. The amount of spots do not affect the fast guys and the divisional qualifier does bring guys that might not go anyway. I raced under the 2 qualifier, 1 qualifier and 0 qualifier systems and the best balance was with the 1 qualifier system. Many of the qualified spots get taken up by guys that would qualify at the nationals, which indirectly opens up more possibility to qualify for middle of the pack guys. The divisional qualifier also gives a middle of the pack guy a chance to get lucky or have a good day and qualify for a nationals final that he may not attend otherwise because he thinks he will not be able to qualify.

Bill Rosado

[mike ross]

And then there's the Palmquist way of thinking. Win the divisional's and still enter the qualifying heats so you could test and get starting times and not give a hoot about the divisional win and free pass in. I like the win gets you in!!!

[daveracerdsh]

I have never been a huge fan of the way things are set up now...somehow having last year's winner in a class being seeded in finals just does not seem right. I know that this is not the main focus of the thread, but I can't think of any other motor sport that does things this way. I am honestly on the fence as far as getting seeded for nationals with a divisional win. I would have to agree with most people that say who is going to stay home from a national event if they know there are four divisional winners in C stock hydro for example.......I don't think many would. And, at least on the West coast, divisionals are a pretty big deal. The e mails and phone calls start flying about a month before the event....can we get that 8th D hydro to Cullaby? Can we get another CSR to Oroville? I don't think that's a bad thing.......

[Charlie Pater]

The Nationals provide a stimulating atmosphere with racers from all over the country at the driver's meeting and pit area. I have always looked forward to the qualification races at the Nationals and like the idea of having more spaces open for the finals. To me, the divisionals do not provide the excitement and competitive test as do the National qualification races. I like the idea of the Nationals event having more spots open for the final race.

[Rich Runne]

Here is a thought lets eliminated the divisional qualifier from the finals of the nationals.
Thinking that this may hurt the participation at the divisional, open up bonus points for drivers outside of that division which would encourage drivers from outside that division to attend other divisional championships. Just a thought.

[Howie Nichols]

I think divisionals qualifiers should be eliminated. I would like to see the previous years high point champion given a spot though. The 2us guys are often forgotten and they deserve more recognition.

[csh12M]

I think that is a really interesting idea. I had never heard that one before - cool thinking.