Timing systems...

[Andrew 4CE]

I've been looking into electronic timing systems a bit. Does anyone know what JetSki racing uses for timing? Are any of the inboard series or F1 using timing systems?

I've yet to find a system that will work on water. Most use either photcells which is not practical for our sport, or a timing strip/wire that goes across the track and detects a transponder on the vehicle, again, not easily done at our kind of events.

Actually I found one, by Tag, but it requires the timer to be in the boat, so it's not a reliable source of timing I'd say since the driver could alter the results it sounds like.

Anyone know anything?

[hydroplay]

Is it for testing-only purposes or to be used during the race as well? The kart guys use a My-Chron system with great results. They have several levels from basic lap times to data logging with numerous inputs. They use a timing beacon which is in the infield. This beacon could be adapted to a small bouy for boat racing. Now the problem comes from convincing the race director to let you put it out in the race course during the race. Karts stay on the pavement (mostly) so the beacon isn't an issue at the start/finish line. I think Bruce Berling tried it in his boat with the beacon on shore at a narrow river course and it worked.

[Andrew 4CE]

Yeah I have a data aquisition computer already...

I looking for a system to time a race for the scorers. Just wondered what was out there to make life more easy for them. Most races have a laptop now, it's not a big step to have a membership card with a bar code or magnetic strip or something. And if we could time the races with a transponder in a boat or something it would make the job so much easier and accurate. You wouldn't need starting camera systems or anything. Money spent on film, VCR's, tv's, video camera's etc could be spent on the timing system instead. Systems I've found start at about $3000 Canadian. Sure a good chunk of money. But if it was simple and rugged enough to share with a few local races then it might be doable with some fund raising. If not now, in the near future. I can't think of any other sport where they depend on a person running a stop watch now a days.

[Bill Huson]

One problem with the start . . .

Sure, a beam start line that would react to a transponder in every boat would eliminate the vid camera/picture start, but . . . BUOY DRIFT! A camera records the start which is judged relitive to buoy position at the moment of the start. The beam/transponder thingie would either have to aimmed at the start bouy every heat, or the start buoy rigged so that it will not drift off position. I've rigged buoys so that they stay over the anchor point give or take a foot or two, so it can be done.

Or the judges stand could shoot the beam wherever and let the race drivers guess!

Or we could do away with all that start on the clock junk and do lemans off the beach or flag starts. That would be my vote. More fun, and spectators love it.

[Andrew 4CE]

Good point about bouy drift! Never crossed my mind. Hmmm, still might be ways around it. Have to see what is out there.

[Stuboat97]

Is the water always too deep to mount on a stake at the point where it must stay. I suppose it is on some courses and not others. Or is the stake a safety hazard?

[Bill Huson]

Deep water . . .

can be found on lakes behind a dam, like Grafton W Va where the water was more'n 100' deep. Methinks a stake is immpractical there, even turn marks were a PITA to set . . . "Gimmee more line -- MORE LINE!" Yeesh.


Stay on station buoy for Andrew 4CE: Big weight ---> line to a pulley or plastic eye on buoy, run line through eye/pulley ---> back down to a weight about half the size of anchor weight. Line should be short enough so lighter weight doesn't hit bottom. This will keep the buoy over the anchor weight with a wee bit of shift from wind or tide or current.

[Jim]

Don't quote me on the specifics, but the Champboat series... including the 120 and 45 class, used a system last year that was a karting system and it failed. I believe they required all the opc guys to put one on their boats and it was a flop. Almost positive it was the Michron system that the karts use. Pipe in if someone has the details.

[pro350hydro]

My-Chron and Digatron both use similar systems and I believe they are compatible. They setup up the sensors at different points were they want readings (starting line in our case). And yes, everyboat must have a Beacon in the boat to trigger the shiznizel at the line. I agree it could be done, but I doubt many clubs are going to want the initial investment. However, if it worked I can see it paying off in the long run. Just my 2 cents

[Andrew 4CE]

I don't believe anything that uses a photocell is accurate or reliable:

- two boats cross the line at the same time, the beacon wont see the inside boat.

- if a runabout was crossing it and happent to hit a wave wrong it "might" tip the boat enough to be out of the angle of view for the photocell to see it the receiver on the boat.

But I've never used a system like those, so this is just my understanding from reading how they work.

Hmmm... more looking/research I guess.

[AOFoffice]

AOF owns a beacon system (very expensive in its time) for straightaway records. It works, but is not the final answer. Of course in a straightaway, there is only one boat at a time that triggers when boat enters and leaves the measured distance. In a regular race I cannot see how this would work with several boats. Also, because the kneeldown boats are so low to the water, any high wave can and will trigger them.
Somehow a transponder system would be the answer. We need someone like Larry Latta who was an engineer with Rockwell and some of the beginnings of the GPS system, black boxes in airlines, etc. to work on something for us.
Connie

[Dick Tyndall]

AMB timing system..............

When I was President of the IMPBA ( R/C boats ) back mid in the 1990's, we tried a timing system that was mainly at that time used for R/C cars. We actually used two systems which consisted of two 1/16" diameter cables, 18" apart, streached across the start/finish line from the bank to the center of the race course. These cables were about 3 feet above the water so as to not snag a boat on it's way by. A small transponder was attached to each boat and when it crossed under the wires the signal would register on the computer. We ran this system at our Nationals in 1998 and 1999. It worked very well when set up correctly, but was not without its problems. We had a program made up for the computer that listed each boat's lap times, the order in which each boat finished, and it even programed the Heats in the order that they were run. The biggest problem with this system was that not many people wanted to go to the trouble of setting the system up to use it. Also, most people didn't know ( or didn't want to know ) how to operate the system with the computer. However, when the system was working, there were no disputes as to who won the race, who finished second, etc.
My suggestion on using a timing system for big boat racing is for someone to approach MyChron, Digitron, AMB, or another company that makes these systems and ask them if they have a system ( or can make one ) that will meet our needs. AMB worked with our organization in developing a system for our model boats, but it wasn't cheap; we must have spent close to $10,000 before it was all said and done. It was eventually sold to a club and I don't think it is being used anymore. Anyone got that kind of money to play with something that at best is going to be "hit or miss" at the races?

[Andrew 4CE]

AMB seemed to have the widest product range of timing systems I could find. Agreed, anything custom would cost lots. I thought maybe with all the jetski racing, tunnel racing, hydro racing, model racing, dragon boats, sailing, swimming, etc... that their might be a standard system out there that we could use. Doesn't seem to be. Guess water sports are still way too small.