APBA Winter Nationals Procedurally Wrong

[fitsracing]

Who approved?

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APBA General Racing Rules only allow full APBA members to participate in Championship races. There is a specific prohibition for single-day members (which is what the AOF and NBRA racers will be considered at this race) in participating in Record Runs or Championship races. However, at the 2005 APBA Annual Meeting, I went before the APBA Board of Directors to obtain a waiver of this rule for this race only. It was approved by them.

I appreciate that this race may affect the Stock and Mod Hall of Champions. But how much more will it mean if you participated in this event, competed against a whole slew of drivers who never come to APBA events, won and were then enducted into the APBA Hall? I think quite a bit.
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14-H



Thread and comments start here. Above is for reference.


This is not to be construed that a joint nationals race should not take place.

But when a race is billed as an "American Power Boat Association Winter Natioanals" where bonus points are awarded that can influence the outcome of Hall of Champions or other high points awards (high average) all participants should be APBA card carrying members.


If a combined championship race is desired by members, let the membership vote on the matter and bill the event as a combined APBA, AOF, NBRA event where bonus points and HOC credit won't be effected.


We as member of the APBA we need to question how this race of combining of competing organizations was approved.


Apparently the stock outboard chairman took it upon himself to approach the APBA Board of Directors and have rules waived with out either membership or commission knowledge ( there is no indication of this matter in both the Stock and or Modified commission 2005 Atlanta National Meeting minutes posted on the APBA website) to authorize a joint race bannered as the "APBA Winter Nationals".

Procedually this is very WRONG. No member could voice his opinion or vote on this significant matter.

The stock chairman obviously overstepped his bounds with total disregard to the racing membership.

It appears the Modified category Winter Nationals are also to be bound with the BOD decision and waiver of the rules with no representation on the part of Modified Commission. ( This topic according to the Mod Chairman and a Mod Commissioner was never presented to the commission for consideration. Also the Stock Commissioner contacted indicated that the Stock commission was not notified either. The above people did attend the Atlanta meeting)

We cannot allow a single indivual, in this case the Stock Chair, to make and or change rules or policy with out membership input. This is effectively the way it happened.

If having non APBA members compete in a Bonus Points Championship is allowed it will dilute the significance of this Winter Nationals.

For those of us who are very concerned with points, keep in mind the outcome of this race can and will effect Hall of Championship points and other high points awards , ie; high average.

Another potentially large problem will be inspection. Since it is an APBA Championship event will all organizations conform to current APBA tech. rules?

Are all organizations tech manuals exactly the same so to assure all competitors of parity and being on an even playing field. Even a slight difference can be an advantage or disadvantage. (consulted briefly with an APBA Insoector and he indicated that the rules are different)

[DougMc]

If having non APBA members compete in a Bonus Points Championship is allowed it will dilute the significance of this Winter Nationals.

I disagree. Having all participate in the Winter Nationals increases the significance.

Thank you Ed Hearn for making this upcoming year's Winter Nationals more competitive by bringing the best from all organizations to one race. Let's see who truely is the best in the nation. Let's get it on!

[Kevin Martin]

i as well disagree

if it weren't for individuals attempting to get the organizations in some sort of unity, trust me the end is near for what we all do. we need to be able to see past the end of our noses, and attempt things, and events such as this. there's been alot of effort to put this together and i know ed has been given alot of that credit, and on the apba side rightfully so, don't forget those individuals in the other two organizations who have been working on this for months as well, again not to take away from what ed has done!!!

i don't understand why some folks have to constantly stir the pot, this is all good for the sport we all enjoy, event participation is dwindling, lets put on a potentially huge event that "everyone" can be part of, what truly does it hurt??? just my opinion kevin

[Richie23N]

Finally

Well written fitsracing! The mere idea of such a nationally competitive event is outstanding. However the simple fact that the combination of three major sanctioning bodies is a technical nightmare should hinder any such motion to combine. As stated by the prior post, the motion was never allowed to be considered by the racers. I am not going to begin to understand the technical rules of two other sanctioning organizations that I don't participate in. However, I have obtained general knowledge throughout the years that indicates even the same named class using the same motor has different technical rules in each of the respecting organizations. Speed advantages or not is irrelevant. The simple premise is that the classes are not apples to apples and hence should not be allowed to compete on the same water at the same time.
I hope that this post is not viewed as a bashing of anyone’s hard work and time to organize such a large event. Being a member of a club that has put on a few major national events I understand the time and dedication that goes into an event such as this. This post is to simply raise awareness and questions about what seems to be a theocratically problematic situation.
I always look forward to the winter nationals. This year is no different. I feel we need clarification on some of the issues being raised so that fairness is never an issue.

[Andrew 4CE]

We've combined APBA drivers with our CBF Nationals in the past at least a couple times. They were simpley scored seperate... the first CBF member to cross the line was the Champion. We basically had to do this to get enough people to hold the race. Some APBA members joined CBF hoping to win a title. It was a great weekend each time it was done. I think it's a great idea and they way I understand it as being done at this event would determine a true champion. Not just the best in one association.

Too bad CBF wasn't included I see some Canadians (also APBA card holders) have already stated they are heading down. I think there is usually a good group of Canuks at the Winternationals. Might attract more if we could run on a CBF card. We already can run regular APBA sancitoned events with a CBF membership. Seems only natural we'd be accepted at the first Nationals to welcome other race associations. Not that I can afford to go... but might be others up here who would be interested.

regardless, KUDOS to anyone involved in making this event happen!! It's all positive in my mind.

Andrew

[ryan_4z]

First off, I must say, that I am not opposed to having races with multiple sanctioning bodies. That said, I also am not sure that the APBA Winter Nationals should be that race. Fitsracing has a great idea of having a combined Nationals, that would not affect the points of any club. The major problem that he pointed out though is obviously the way this went about happening. I know that Ed is only doing what he feels is best(and it certainly may be in the long run, right now none of us know), but he definetly overstepped his bounds. The commission, at the very least, should be involved in the decision to extend this membership. If the commission had approved this, there would really be no problem, as they are our representatives. But I can almost gaurantee it would have been a very close vote. Chances are, this won't be a big issue next year, but it might. If someone loses a High Point race at the end of the season because they got beat at the Winter Nats. by a non-APBA member, you better believe they are gonna be pissed, and rightfully so.

[AOFoffice]

Solution?

I am curious. What would be the solution? Cancel the race and take new bids?
Technical is not a problem. This is an APBA race and APBA tech rules will be met. Period.
The one day membership may be a problem if not properly presented and agreed upon at the APBA national meeting. I cannot comment as I don't know.
Question: APBA accepts CBF cards? Correct?
Then how about AOF and NBRA make a deal with CBF for a discounted membership and present that card? Wouldn't that make the participation legal? Speaking for AOF, all we need is a copy of the points and we figure out the AOF points ourselves. We did it at Jesup, all Peace River races, and USTS races. No problems.
How are CBF members now affecting a winter nationals, nationals, divisionals, etc., using their cards? Wouldn't they also affect high points and HOC?
I disagree with Ed on the numbers. I cannot fathom over 20 (high estimate) of participants who would not also have an APBA card. (Either yearly, or sporadically, most of the members of AOF and NBRA purchase an APBA membership). If they win, I am certain that they would follow up with a full membership. Maybe this would spark their interest in a run for the HOC?
I am beginning to understand a little bit more why some of the AOF and NBRA members say they had enough and don't join APBA political racing.
Connie

[DougMc]

Well written fitsracing!

http://www.smilebug.com/chicken.shtml

[ryan_4z]

If they win, I am certain that they would follow up with a full membership. Maybe this would spark their interest in a run for the HOC?

This is the only thing that bothers me about this. I do not think that a non-APBA memeber should be able to win, then join APBA, and get HOC points, or national points. I am not really opposed to what is going on, but this being a championship race, all questions must be answered. And we certainly have a right to ask them, and not be labeled as haters of AOF, which I am more than sure some of you are thinking. This is the first event of this kind, and everyone must be sure of how situations will be handled ahead of time, because you can be sure that if they were to come up after the fact, people would get pissed.

No the race should not be canceled. I think you are taking this personally Connie, and that should not be the case. I just want to make suer that any issue that could potentially be a problem is resolved beforehand, so as to ensure a smooth running event.

[Kevin Martin]

that's awesome

on the floor rolling, funny stuff, nice to lighten the mood from time to time
the thing i see happening by some of the comments here is a continued seperation, and not a union, the concept between this entire post. some folks just do not and will not be in favor of unity in this realm, those of us that do, need to continue to forge on, there are many more of us out there. kevin

[Andrew 4CE]

Question: APBA accepts CBF cards? Correct?
Then how about AOF and NBRA make a deal with CBF for a discounted membership and present that card? Wouldn't that make the participation legal?

APBA currently will not accept a CBF card at a Divisional or National event. Only for regular sanctioned events. Nothing wrong with that system currently. Works great. I can understand an association wanting their own Nationals. But if it's open to other groups... I'd hope CBF would be included.

To add... While at a APBA event, we must follow the rules and inspections of the APBA regarless if we are racing under a CBF card. Makes sense to me. AS when the APBA guys come to a CBF race, they follow our rules. (mostly the same except the odd age limit or class weight. We actually use the APBA inspection manual for motors that are similar.)

[csh12M]

You have got to be kidding me!!

You have got to be kidding me!!

Finally someone is tring to do something to bring together the sanctioning bodies of kneel down racing and people dare complain about it. I really can not beleive what I am reading...... this is the biggest step I have seen in ten years to increasing membership, understanding and competitors nationwide. I applaud all those that are trying to make it happen. So what that their FEH is called something else and the port timing may be different.....boo hoo. I really dont care.... wake up and see the forest through the trees! I am sorry if may cost one maybe two people a shot at the HOC, but I really think that is selfish and petty thinking. If you think you are going to be at a huge disadvantage than dont go! It is in California every other year and no more than 3-4 trailers from the east attend, therefore; the arguement that this could really effect or ruin someones season is really not valid.

This race could have a huge upside to all sanctioning bodies involved. I am sorry if you think it is unfair, but personally I think your are wrong!

CSH12M
Dean Sutherland

[ryan_4z]

You are absolutely right Dean, the competition at this race will more than likely be unparalleled. I for one would never dream of skipping this race because other sanctioning bodies are involved, that does nothing but highten the competition. And we will be afforded the opportunity to race against many new competitors, in a venue that(from what I hear) is second to none. But isn't better to have all questions answered before the event? Right now, besides a little *****ing, no problems have arisen. But if questions are not dealt with ahead of time the problems will arise. With these questions being anwered, no one will have the right to complain come March. Having the air cleared well ahead of time will assure us all that this Winter Nats. will be a top notch event.

[mike ross]

The worst case senrerio here is someone may have to join APBA. I can't believe this would be that much of a problem. The other organazations have money they need to spend to stay a non profit. Offer to pay the apba fees with this money and were good to go. I think Ed is doing what is right for all boat racers. There are other issues like insurance that haven't even come up. Lets put our smart caps on and figure out what is the best way to make it legal fair and affordable for everyone. And most of all GET-ER-DONE!!!! Mike

[AOFoffice]

APBA currently will not accept a CBF card at a Divisional or National event. Only for regular sanctioned events. Nothing wrong with that system currently. Works great. I can understand an association wanting their own Nationals. But if it's open to other groups... I'd hope CBF would be included.

To add... While at a APBA event, we must follow the rules and inspections of the APBA regarless if we are racing under a CBF card. Makes sense to me. AS when the APBA guys come to a CBF race, they follow our rules. (mostly the same except the odd age limit or class weight. We actually use the APBA inspection manual for motors that are similar.)

Thank you Andrew. That is ok. It was just my question and a possible solution.
Ryan, I am not taking any of this seriously or think this is an attack on AOF. I fully agree with Kevin F that everything needs to be done procedurally. I was just looking for a loop hole. Oh well, didn't happen. I do however hope there is a solution. A problem has been identified, and the next step is to find an answer to the problem. And Other than cancelling the race, I am not sure what it is? I have heard several of you complain, but no solutions. Anyone got a legitimate one?
Connie