25SSR issues.......

[mercguy]

my thoughts of the Yamato powered boats in this class are:

1) minimum weight should be raised to 440lbs and leaving the engine height requirements as they are.

or

2) like stated before, lowering the engine height rule to 1 1/2". This would help improve the acceleration lost, when adding the restrictor, but also slow down the top speed.


having (3) different motors in the same class is not such a bad thing. Consider the "spectators" might have a preference in motors, sort of like a Ford vs Chevy battle............

there was a good battle this year in 25SSR with all 3 motors, Runne/Pater with Yamato's, Kelly with a Merc, and Sutherland with the Hot Rod.............

[Tim Weber]

Darren,

You hit it exactly! I proposed this to some commsioners at last years national meeting. It went to a vote and was shot down. The reason it was shot down? They already voted to remove the Merc restrictor and decided it was enough tweeking for one year.

This year we had one really, really good Yamato at Dayton, Mr. 52-M with a carbon boat. Joe took advantage of the weight rule and smoked the field. Good for him! We also had J. Michael in a really fast Merc who by the way, just set the 1 mile record in Oraville. He had to up Kevin Ladd's record from the first heat in Joe's carbon boat.

What does this say to me? If you raise the Yamato weight too much, you may as well hand the nationals to the Merc. It was proposed by some to make a Yamato weigh in at 475 which is CSR weight. In my opinion this is too much as I have run it at this weight testing and its about 2-3 mph slower on my rig from non-restricted and really a pig coming out of the turns.

If we go with the rule of thumb of 25 pounds equals a mile an hour in speed, increasing the Yamato 25-35 pounds I think will achieve the parity we are looking for. A really good Merc should be faster which it seems to me is what is trying to be achieved.

I know a lot of people say just kill the class. I think John Runne hit it when he said that we need to keep this going until Hot Rod has the 20 CI ready. When ready, the Hot Rod should be the dominate motor in the class and we will have parts etc.

My argument for keeping it is this. We do not have a DSR. We only have 1 large runabout class, CSR. If you eliminate the 25 then we have A,B,C only. I am not counting JR and AXSR as I consider them kid classes. There is no step between the classes. Face it, CSR is our modern equivalent to a DSR. In my mind the 25 is our equivalent to a 30H, C.

Lets' keep it going until Hot Rod is ready.

Tim

[Joe J]

[QUOTE=Tim Weber]Darren,

This year we had one really, really good Yamato at Dayton, Mr. 52-M with a carbon boat. Joe took advantage of the weight rule and smoked the field. Good for him! We also had J. Michael in a really fast Merc who by the way, just set the 1 mile record in Oraville. He had to up Kevin Ladd's record from the first heat in Joe's carbon boat.

Tim, your statement about the record is not accurate. Both J. Michael and Kevin upped the old record in the first heat, but Micheal won the heat. Neither of them were over their times in the 2nd heat.

Joe Johnson

[mercguy]

[QUOTE=Joe J]

Darren,

This year we had one really, really good Yamato at Dayton, Mr. 52-M with a carbon boat. Joe took advantage of the weight rule and smoked the field. Good for him! We also had J. Michael in a really fast Merc who by the way, just set the 1 mile record in Oraville. He had to up Kevin Ladd's record from the first heat in Joe's carbon boat.

Tim, your statement about the record is not accurate. Both J. Michael and Kevin upped the old record in the first heat, but Micheal won the heat. Neither of them were over their times in the 2nd heat.

Joe Johnson

both were Yamato powered also.........

[Tim Weber]

Sorry about that. J. Michael did run a Merc in Dayton. I didn't know he changed power plants.

Tim

[mercguy]

adverse affects......

my thoughts of the Yamato powered boats in this class are:

1) minimum weight should be raised to 440lbs and leaving the engine height requirements as they are.

or

2) like stated before, lowering the engine height rule to 1 1/2". This would help improve the acceleration lost, when adding the restrictor, but also slow down the top speed.


having (3) different motors in the same class is not such a bad thing. Consider the "spectators" might have a preference in motors, sort of like a Ford vs Chevy battle............

there was a good battle this year in 25SSR with all 3 motors, Runne/Pater with Yamato's, Kelly with a Merc, and Sutherland with the Hot Rod.............

both of these "ideas" will also have adverse affects too:

1- adding more weight will make the "hole" a little bigger for the Merc and Hot Rod boats.....

2- lowering the engine height would probably deter alot of the CSR guys that run the class also, as they are not going to want to have to change their complete engine setup or even cut down the transom, if it was needed.......so class participation would decline ........

[mercguy]

Sorry about that. J. Michael did run a Merc in Dayton. I didn't know he changed power plants.

Tim

he ran his Sorensen/Yamato rig at Oroville, which is his normal CSR. It is ALOT faster than the Merc rig he raced in Dayton.........

[17W]

Oh Man.....

I just hired an Anorexic Midget to drive my rig in 25.

Actually, gonna work on the 25 program this coming year some. My thinking is, "if it ain't broke don't fix it". This is my only comment!

[mercguy]

runabout class weights.......

I have always thought that the minimum weight for CSR is high. It is a HUGE jump from the class below it, which would be 25SSR. There just does not seem to be a runabout class that is really "ideal" for a 175lb person or such. Look at these class requirements:

ASR 350lbs
BSR 360lbs
25SSR 405lbs
CSR 475lbs
DSR 505lbs

pretty big jump from 25SSR to CSR, but only 30lbs more to DSR.............any good reasoning for this??

[dholt]

Darren,

If you weigh 175 pounds, then the current BSR is perfect.

I weigh b/t 180 and 185 and have to put lead in my Racecraft.

So a little heavier boat and a 175 pound guy is right on for BSR.

[ryan_4z]

Leave 25ssR alone, it's a good Yamato class right now, and thats all it is ever going to be until the Hot Rod comes out. We are holding on by the skin of our teeth to a Mercury motor that hasn't been widely raced since the days of the Merc Challenge. It's time to let this motor go. Keep the class as is until the Hot Rod is being produced, and then get the Yamato the hell out of there as quickly as possible. Then let the class thrive on the growth of the Hot Rod, and the few 25xs Merc guys. Give it a couple more years after that, and pull out the Merc also. Just make sure guys have time to buy a 20 Hot Rod before their Mercs are obsolete.

[MGallagher]

I say up the weight. The 53-M was very fast at the nationals due to the weight program it was running. Now, whether it was the weight or other factors that effected the speed I'm not sure. However, increasing that weight to 430 lbs would possibly help the so called parity in the class and enable me to run both C and 25 in the same boat without dumping 70 lbs of led in the boat. No matter what you do though, there is always going to be that one or two guys that blow the doors off eveyone.

Raise the weight to 430 lbs, everyone do there homework over the off season and we will see what happens next year!

Matt Gallagher
58J

[KellyLadd]

Back to the facts...

We generally like to stay out of these debates, but when the ideas become ridiculous, we think we should get back to some facts...
25SSR 2002 Nationals:
Vic Brinkman - 1st
25SSR 2003 Nationals:
Ed Hearn - 2nd
Darrel Ludwig - 3rd
25SSR 2004 Nationals:
Brian Rhodes - 2nd (winning a finals heat)
25SSR 2005 Nationals:
Ed Hearn - 4th (2nd in a finals heat)
These were Hot Rods and Mercurys (out of R6 & R7 'coincidentally').

In 2005, the 53-M goes out and does his homework (working at it harder than anyone else), drives smart, and spanks the field. The Mercury and Hot Rods hardly showed up. But if Brian Rhodes had been there, I bet he would've been on the podium. Keep in mind, the 53-M had no more on the Mercs than the 2nd place Yamato.

I think based on the small percentage of HR and Merc entries, they have proven to be competitive. The restrictor IS out. Let it be for a while...
Or throw a few more pounds (20-30) at the Yamato. Would it have really changed the results?

Why would anyone want the obsolete Mercury to be more dominant (than the Yamato)?? IT'S NOT AVAILABLE !! But if you really want to do that, the 53-M also has one of the best 25 Mercs in the basement. You don't want to challenge him to come back and repeat in it. The bottom line is: stop being a computer geek, get off your butt, and go out and do your homework. We'll be testing until the water freezes and we are forced to get out the snowmobiles...

KLadds-

PS. I hate to say it, but Dana has the right idea (both short and long term).

[mercguy]

common suggestion!

it seems that several people are in agreement that the weight for the Yamato powered 25SSR's should be raised to around 430lbs. What is so bad about making this a rule change? Heck, I bet ALOT of the Yamato 25 runabouts are already at or above that weight anyways, if they are "cross-overs" from CSR...............

for a TRUE Yamato powered 25SSR to be able to meet the 405lb minimum of the class, the boat would have to be ultra-lightweight (like the 53-M boat) or have a "toothpick" driving the boat...........

[mercguy]

a little off the subject, but.......

has anyone tried running a Yamato 80 on the 25 runabout?