For 25H... wanted to keep class issues seperate

[Big Don]

Started a new thread to keep the 25 Hydro issue separate from all the other issues and to keep it separate from the 25 Utility issue.

Is the restrictor the reason that no one wants to race the class? I’m asking the question, it’s not a statement.

I am asking this to the guys who race or have raced the class, that have driven the rig with the restrictor and without one, please speak up. I get feed up when the SORC makes decisions at our national meetings and when we get home people start complaining. Speak up before hand so it's not the same 20 people on here giving their opinions. I sent an e-mail to all BSOA/MRA members asking them to come on here and speak up. All of us should do that for our areas. I for one feel if you don't share your opinion then shut up when the SORC makes a decision. If you do share and the vote does not go your way… give us an earful you earned that right by being part of the solution good or bad, right or wrong.

I hear drivers say it is the worse ride they have ever been in. If removing the restrictor will make it drivable than why not make the change.

If removing the restrictor will just allow the engine to slow down in the corners and the backend still wants to come around in the corners...then we need to do something else to fix that.

Agree that the numbers are down but if we can make it a better ride and get some interest back in the class lets try something. If making these changes does not make it a safer/fun/drivable rig then what will?

I just want some facts that we can make a rational decision with.

What makes this an undesirable ride?

[DougMc]

Tough to find a motor and no 25SSH boats in Region 5. Had there been boats and easy to find motors I would have bought a 25H rig rather than a CSH regardless of restrictors.

[aojesus]

25motor

Good Evening,
Can you tell me what is considered a legal motor for 25H? I don't have current rule book handy.

[raceboat61-S]

25SSH restrictor

Thanks for seperating the 25 XS/Hydro issue. My racing partner and I both race in 25SSH with Merc 25XS in Region 6. We love the ride. I also race 25SSR with my Merc and I'm building a "flat-turner" runabout this winter for the engine. I vote to remove the Merc restrictor (everybody wants a more responsive engine, better acceleration, and possibly greater straightaway speed). My other reason for wanting the restrictor removed is to reduce engine maintenance/changeover between classes. I want to run both classes with the same engine. I might add that my racing partner also uses his 25XS quite successfully in the 25 Mod hydro class. It is a great engine for that class because we are losing sites where the 22ci Mercs and Johnson-rudes with megaphone exhaust can run. Remove the restrictors ! Mike Marshall, Raceboat 61-S and Bob Schmidt 390-S

[Richard N. Duncan]

Good Ride!

I disagree with the statement that the 25SSH is a bad ride. I have been out of racing for quite a few years and returning I find that the Merc 25XS gives a very smooth, safe and enjoyable ride. I tried the HR20 CID and found it just ok. I like the competition but frankly, this class is great for driver enjoyment which satisfies me.
Dick D 39P

[csh12M]

2 cents

Hey Don,

I have raced Miskeiks 25XS a few times, you notice neither he or I ever race it now. It is the spookiesst ride I have ever been in. However, the restrictor did not bug me that much. For me it was the fact that I was going 71mph on a boat that is smaller than my CSH (68mph). It also lifts the back of the boat a lot. I have been told this is because of gearcase design, but I do not profess that as fact. Bottom line, I think a good 25SSH runs closer to the "ragged edge" than all other classes out their.

On the other hand I am running a 20CI Hot Rod on a smaller boat at 5/8 inches below the bottom of the boat and it feels great. I am only going 68/69MPH but it rips through the turns and feels great. With a good start I am pretty competitive and I love that ride.

I really dont care that much personally what happens. However, I think pulling the restrictor in the 25SSH will kill the Hot Rod. I know I am the only one now, but give it a year or two. I know Sidor is considdering getting one, the interest was begining and new motors are around the corner. Hot Rod has sunk over $100k in trying to get motors built again (30k for the OMC gearcase alone) give him a little time and support. 25SSH has raced this way for 17 years, lets give it a few more.

[mercguy]

from my view..........

Hey Don,

I have raced Miskeiks 25XS a few times, you notice neither he or I ever race it now. It is the spookiesst ride I have ever been in. However, the restrictor did not bug me that much. For me it was the fact that I was going 71mph on a boat that is smaller than my CSH (68mph). It also lifts the back of the boat a lot. I have been told this is because of gearcase design, but I do not profess that as fact. Bottom line, I think a good 25SSH runs closer to the "ragged edge" than all other classes out their.

On the other hand I am running a 20CI Hot Rod on a smaller boat at 5/8 inches below the bottom of the boat and it feels great. I am only going 68/69MPH but it rips through the turns and feels great. With a good start I am pretty competitive and I love that ride.

I really dont care that much personally what happens. However, I think pulling the restrictor in the 25SSH will kill the Hot Rod. I know I am the only one now, but give it a year or two. I know Sidor is considdering getting one, the interest was begining and new motors are around the corner. Hot Rod has sunk over $100k in trying to get motors built again (30k for the OMC gearcase alone) give him a little time and support. 25SSH has raced this way for 17 years, lets give it a few more.

it also looks to me, as if the 25SSH's with the Mercs run right on "the edge" also. Cool to watch them, but I seem to always be anticipating on when they "loose it". Heck, maybe it is just me............

[14-H]

Dangerous 25H

I haven't done anything to upset anyone for at least a few weeks (that I know of), so here I go:

I tried this class a few times. It is dangerous in my opinion because it goes too fast on a small boat and the drivers refuse to place a height restriction on it and go nuts anytime the SORC even discusses it. Even a half-an-inch restriction would be helpful.

Why not pull the restrictor and put a half-inch height restriction (or 3/4) on this class? [Del Snyder lost control of himself the last time I suggested this to such an extent that he spit out his beer!]

[dholt]

Hanging curve ball...

I'm taking a big cut at this hanger.

If the ASH "tuck rule" was implemented by order of the BOD b/c of a perceived safety issue...then why not take the case to the BOD with the same fervor about the unsafe 25ssH?

Ed, Dean, Mark Miskerik and other veterans who know how to drive a boat very well say it's spooky and unsafe...so seems like there's an issue.

If ASH was unsafe, then what in blazes is 25ssH?

[ryan_4z]

The future of this class clearly lies in the Hot Rod. I don't think anyone can dispute that. The current status of this class is that it should not even exist as a national class. I don't think anyone can realistically dispute that either(although I'm sure many will try). The class is dead as it is, but what we have is the foundation for what will be a great class with the 20 Hot Rod. As far as I am concerned, this motor should be obsoleted from stock outboard, and only run as a local class. But I know that the commission doesn't seem to want to piss off the 12-15 guys in the country who still run these things. The real important reason, though, to keep them around is to have a place for the Hot Rod to run until it can survive on it's own. Then we phase out the Merc over a 2-3 year period. Unrestricting the 25xs would ruin the future of the class.

[14-H]

I'm taking a big cut at this hanger.

If the ASH "tuck rule" was implemented by order of the BOD b/c of a perceived safety issue...then why not take the case to the BOD with the same fervor about the unsafe 25ssH?

Ed, Dean, Mark Miskerik and other veterans who know how to drive a boat very well say it's spooky and unsafe...so seems like there's an issue.

If ASH was unsafe, then what in blazes is 25ssH?

Dana: Good point. I will say this, however: in ASH, there are a lot of drivers who supported the anti-tuck position. In 25SSH, there do not seem to be many who support a height restriction... they've all quit. And you've got to have some members of the class help you sell your position to the BOD. It's not easy to get the BOD to step into the affairs of a class or category particularly post SEA-TAC. Ed.

[David Weaver]

Class or category issue?

Why not address it at the category level with input from all the stock outboard drivers?

[ricochet112]

25SSH isn't a bad ride if......

First I need to ask a question, in the rule book the prop shaft height is listed as 0", does that mean there's no limit, or is it that the center line of the propshaft must be below the bottom of the boat?

I have been out of 25SSH for about 7 years, not because it's a "bad ride", but because the class fell off the map on the West coast. I didn't even know the HR20 was a legal motor for the class until last year. I just bought my engine back and want to get my 25SSH ride back on the water, watching the numbers fall at the Nats each year is what my driving force is, and the fact I LOVE the ride! Pulling the restrictor won't make it better of a ride (IMHO) only more of a handfull, because the speeds will increase (only slightly though).

Don, It's not a bad ride, it's ALL in the boat size and set-up!

Richard, Jack your engine up until the bottom of the propshaft is even with the bottom of the boat and see if it's still stable. From what I remember thats where everyone WAS running.

Ed, It must be the comming of the Apocalypse...we AGREE on something!!
The 25SSH wouldn't be "a handfull" if it had a propshaft height or a minimum boat length. With a 25SSH we have a class thats 2-4mph faster than the CSH class. CSH boats have 4-6" longer afterplanes, weigh 40lbs more and have self regulated propshaft heights by having force feed cooling.

I always used "C" sized boats for my 25XS engine because they handled the speed better than a 25SS or BSH sized boat.

BTW, the current 25SSH 1 and 1 1/4 mile records were set with a "C" size boat and the propshaft was about 1/2" below the bottom. (maybe 3/8?)

IF the restrictor is pulled for the 25SSH class, the records MUST be frozen, the speed differential is too much for the existing records.

Pull the stinking restrictors if it will help the class, they were put in because of a block change in the late 80's to keep the new block the same speed as the old block.

I hope to be at Wakefield in 2006, and PLEASE bring at least 7 25SSH's to Moses Lake in 2007!!!!! Starving for 25SSH copmetition in region 10.

Mike Bartlett 112-R

[raceboat61-S]

Eddie, et al,
I wouldn't be so presumptious as to attempt to lecture you experienced/successful racers about set-up and handling qualities but I can tell you that driver/boat weight makes a huge difference with the 25XS. I don't have handling problems. At the Nationals I was 35 lbs over weight and it seems that my old Keylard is apparently more stable for my combination of weight, hydro style, and engine trim. 0" at the transom was just a "limit point" for me...not a goal. From there I moved the engine in/out and down some until I found the best combination of speed and acceptable handling. I am already at 3/8 inch and kicked under just a bit....I increase both when the water is rough like it was at Dayton this year at the Nationals. Eddie if you drove sombody else's boat with their best set up, at your racing weight (140 ??) it probably WAS squirrly. But don't judge the whole class by your short, exciting experience. By the way, I have lost 26 pounds since the Nationals and I actually won a 25H race at Ford City in late Sept against several of the same guys that thumped me in Dayton. Weight makes a huge difference. I'm anxious for next year. Remove the restrictor! I'll wait out the Hot Rod onslaught and welcome its re-introduction. Make decisions for the boats and motors that are already on the lake. Mike Marshall, Raceboat61-S

[csh12M]

"Making decisions based on the boats on the water" has always been one of the biggest problems with SORC and the Commission based system.

No offense, I just respectfully disagree.

Thanks,
CSH12M