HONDA 4-Stroke Update?

[Fast Jack]

$ 4 stroke

funny how the $ and the 4 are on the same key. I dont think this is the way to go to build a new motor. That Honda is expensive and heavy, I can't get one in the test tank by myself. Honda dealers have to sign a contract for sales that limits how they can sell the motors, there is no way I would want a stock $ 1780.00 gearcase in my shop collecting dust. I would like to see the support go into the new Hot Rod, the Young/Pearsol 25 xs and the Bass and 44xs projects. I think we need to support these builders and keep the motors we now own competative, with out re -inventing the wheel. thats my speal. ( a 125 is nice and light and comes in a neat wooden box, and uses no gas) Shawn

[Andrew 4CE]

I just figured I'd post this link in here for those to see who may not have... you're both using Honda motors... maybe you should work together a bit? Honda would maybe step up even more if they knew you were interested in two motor models... ? They're assembling special short shaft combos for the tunnels guys to play with...

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...ead.php?t=3150

[Cameraboy]

I just figured I'd post this link in here for those to see who may not have... you're both using Honda motors... maybe you should work together a bit? Honda would maybe step up even more if they knew you were interested in two motor models... ? They're assembling special short shaft combos for the tunnels guys to play with...

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...ead.php?t=3150

I found this to be the most compelling comment in the above thread:

"The biggest factor is that Honda was willing to indulge us."

How much did Honda indulge the SORC project?

[STEVE FRENCH]

Andrew, Interesting info from Ron's own Webb site!........

Added other thread to keep thoughts together.......https://hydroracer.net/forums/showthr...9&page=1&pp=15

As mensioned, I think I would start with the 20HP. Same cubic inch......

19P

[nbass]

Tohatsu 4-cycle engines available at a great price

As I understand from our supplier, Tohatsu manufacturers all of the Mercury Marine 4-cycle engines for Mercury Marine. They are quality products rated highly by boating magazines. We have an ongoing relationship with Tohatsu America and can bring the small 4-cycle engines to the racing market. I have attached a list specifications for some of the Tohatsu 4-cycle engines ranging from 9.8HP to 30HP. You can get your own review by going to http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/index.html

For instance, the MSRP for an off-the-shelf bare bones 18HP is $2787. There are Internet adds for lower prices. If there were some support and a joint investment we might adapt a lower unit for a test. Sid is not interested in another bad investment but there is opportunity to work with the situation.

Neil Bass

[mercguy]

As I understand from our supplier, Tohatsu manufacturers all of the Mercury Marine 4-cycle engines for Mercury Marine. They are quality products rated highly by boating magazines. We have an ongoing relationship with Tohatsu America and can bring the small 4-cycle engines to the racing market. I have attached a list specifications for some of the Tohatsu 4-cycle engines ranging from 9.8HP to 30HP. You can get your own review by going to http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/index.html

For instance, the MSRP for an off-the-shelf bare bones 18HP is $2787. There are Internet adds for lower prices. If there were some support and a joint investment we might adapt a lower unit for a test. Sid is not interested in another bad investment but there is opportunity to work with the situation.

Neil Bass

Neil, your info is NOT correct in regards to Tohatsu making all of Merc's 4cycles.

[nbass]

Tohatsu Murcury 4-cycles

I maybe did not frame that accurately enough. As I understand it Tohatsu makes the Mercury 30HP and smaller. They are the Electronic Fuel Injected models. Mercury may be selling some of the older non-EFI style models.
Neil Bass

[nbass]

Mercury 4-stroke

I see by the Mercury Internet page that the only 4-cycle specifications that match the Tohatsu are the 25HP & 30HP. I suspect there will more Tohatsu engines available from Mercury in the future. My point is not to rank on Mercury but to point out that there may be a good inventory of available small 4-cycle engines from Tohatsu and Mercury with all the same parts. I would envision a Bass Machines adapter with pump and lower unit suitable for a 25 or 30 HP machine. But, Bass Machines will not invest in the tooling to make parts that will not sell at least 100 over a 5-year life.

Racers, what is the interest? Can anyone jump on the wagon?
Neil Bass

[G Stillwill]

Im no expert here but do know what it takes to make horsepower. Not till you can make the smaller motors spin in the 7500 to 8500 rpm range and live all day that those speeds will you get one to run where we are now. That plus reduce some of the top heavy weight and total weight will you get the things to handle.....18HP=115 pounds. I know the ign is holding them back but it must be for a reason, maybe they wont hold together at any higher rpm or they just figure the guy with the fishing pole in his hand dont need to go faster. I know Honda or Yamaha can make a 4 stroke scream just look at their counter part cycles and they dont have a rev limit. But hp and speed sells cycles hence you have the HP wars but not in fishing motors.

[ricochet112]

No intrest in racing a 4 cycle outboard here, I'll quit if that's my only choice.

[nbass]

2-cycle is definitely better

I must agree that the 2-cycle makes a racing engine, but that is not what is being produced as a stock engine in today's market place. Therefore, boat racers had better come to grips with a different plan than Mercury and OMC traditions of supplying stock racing equipment.

I am signing off the soapbox. Thanks for entertaining me.
Neil Bass

[26V]

Is 4 stroke our future?

Currently in stock racing we have the 302, Merc 15, that we can buy "new" and maybe the 44sx if you can call it new. After that we have to buy a used motor in questionable condition for the OMC 15hp, 102, hotrod, and so on.

The Sidewinder will help, Yahoo, a new motor for some classes.

From a new racer perspective, being able to buy a "new" motor that would be competitive out of the box, would greatly raise the comfidence level of knowing you could buy good eqiupment and run a reasonable race. Fast enough to learn anyway.

As Nifer likes to say " theres no sence in racing yourself for last place" And lets face it its not fun to be half a lap or more down at every race.

Should we look at yet another beginner class? we have J for the 9-14yr olds and ASX for 14yrs and up.
The Merc 15 though you need to be a motor man or know a motor guru to get the motor to be competitive. Kind of intimidating for a new racer.
And we have a lot of classes already.

local stock car racing has tried time and time again to keep a low budget racing class. and keep failing when the racers start spending more and more so they can win. Wining and being competative is what racing is about. And we all try anything we can to find more speed. Its the nature of the sport and sometimes its downfall.

A class using a production Factory motor and stock foot, run a 10-12' fishing boat! IF they like what they see at the races they will want to "move up" into the current racing classes.
And yes we have that with ASX but being competitive in that class with the merc 15 depends on your motor skills or who works on your motor. buy a "good" boat, spend time and money on props that may or may not work.

So how about a hobby stock class. use the tiller steering and any fishing boat they want to run. IE back to the roots of stock outboarding?

Just a thought.

Gene 26V

[nbass]

Not All New Motors Listed

Let me correct your list of new engines. The D-stock Tohatsu by Bass Machines is a legal D-stock engine in APBA, AOF, & NBRA. It can be purchased completely brand new, (no used parts anywhere) is highly competitive in AOF & NBRA stock & mod. Only APBA has crippled its performance by a defunct parity committee.

[26V]

Oops

OOPS I missed that one I guess because I have not seen one run yet.
Thanks for the correction.

Let me correct your list of new engines. The D-stock Tohatsu by Bass Machines is a legal D-stock engine in APBA, AOF, & NBRA. It can be purchased completely brand new, (no used parts anywhere) is highly competitive in AOF & NBRA stock & mod. Only APBA has crippled its performance by a defunct parity committee.

[26V]

Maybe Steve, I don't know. What motor is used in the mini GT class?
I just think finding new racers would be easyer if a new box stock motor and easly aquired boat is competative from the start. No major shopping needed nor any motor work to run with the rest of the class. the speeds run would not have to be "fast" say 35 to 45 mph. Isn't that about what the mini GT runs?

The cost of buying a new motor is a factor but then if they don't stay in racing. they have the option of actualy fishing or regualar boating with thier motor if not also the boat. so the investment in equipment is reusable without trying to sell to another racer. Just think that would make it an easyer sell .