We need: PRO division controversy!

[jsilvestri]

Thanks for the response guys, it makes sense. Certainly, we don't need unsafe racing conditions.

[sam]

So .... is it the boat's fault or the driver's?

[Sean Augustine]

No fault

Hey Sam,

The line of travel through a turn is completely different. The capsules/hydros "slide" while the tunnels really do "turn on rails". This was the reason the two different styles of boats "cross paths" in a turn. This was apparent (for me) at the o-500 WC in Lakeland in the '90's: the first time I had really seen a tunnel hull with a pro motor.

m174,

Next time, before running your mouth, why don't you look at the name "Augustine" and see what the family has done for PRO racing at both the local level and for the USTS.

Oh yeah, and why don't you look at the referee at the PRO Nationals and WC the last couple of years, and then notice how that person gave up their ride so there would be no question of their impartiality.

You can have an opinion, but base it on facts, not ignorance.

Sean Augustine

[pro350hydro]

You can have an opinion, but base it on facts, not ignorance.

Well Said

[Kevin Martin]

wish i had.....

said it that well, great words sean!!! kevin

[Kevin Martin]

m174

where do you get your facts to sling like you are, especially in regards to us westerners??? i've run open cockpit 500's since 94 out here as well as at depue, i personally have never witnessed an accident someone hasn't walked away from, in fact i personally have never seen blood drawn. we're proactive out here, we realize these boats are rolling and we control them with course size, and great safety equipment and staff. accidents do happen, i personally can't afford to step up as you put it ,to purchase a capsule nor do i wish to, i really enjoy driving an open cockpit boat, my choice i realize. in my opinion the numbers are what they are purely for financial reasons, capsules are not as affordable!!!! by the way m174 my name is kevin martin

[Kristi Ellison]

This is great!!

Eric
Way to go i think this is what you were looking for. I want to thank that referee from the PRO nationals last year for giving up his ride and giving it too me....even if the kill switch fell out in the first turn.
Kristi

[m174]

cant see the forest through the trees i guess

where do you get your facts to sling like you are, especially in regards to us westerners??? i've run open cockpit 500's since 94 out here as well as at depue, i personally have never witnessed an accident someone hasn't walked away from, in fact i personally have never seen blood drawn. we're proactive out here, we realize these boats are rolling and we control them with course size, and great safety equipment and staff. accidents do happen, i personally can't afford to step up as you put it ,to purchase a capsule nor do i wish to, i really enjoy driving an open cockpit boat, my choice i realize. in my opinion the numbers are what they are purely for financial reasons, capsules are not as affordable!!!! by the way m174 my name is kevin martin

Well I guess is no point in bringing things up as you are lucky to never have seen anybody hurt, lets see you Remember Gerry Drake, Sean McKean, Bill Kurps, Jack Gossman, those guys run hard, and still have scars for real, and Gerry is gone, the point is that the capsules are needed to keep the drivers safe at the speeds of today, if running the old stuff as it used to be, then there never would have been the capsule thing, I dont think Dick Hass was the primary reason for the capsules, it was just a little bad judgement to hire him as a promoter, As far as the Augistine thing, POP,Gary, and I all know each other very well, and have even been hit by a Augistine, sliding into me, never made much mind but was in 350 class at Norwood, but was better then to be a 350 than a 500, with the speeds increasing every year, I wouldnt be surprized to see 350 become a capsule class, and the 500 runabout is going almost as fast as the hydros, so what is next? When the capsule class became manditory there were a lot of open boats that went to the west coast due to the fact that they dont run APBA rules, and ignore the (saftey)
thing that had to be mandated to help keep the drivers safe, so before you step up and yell about what I have said, make sure you know what you are saying, cause I do, and have seen it, there is only one person that has lead a charmed life in racing, and that is Dan Kirts, anothe personal friend, so you can drive your open boats, and hope you never have to be pulled from the water or have to help save someone else

[epugh66]

Hellooooooo, any one remember the 60% sponson rule I thought we could discuss? Now its just become a capsule/noncapsule attack. Several times before, Dan has threatend to ban the word "capsule" Dont give him reason to. Even worse, he may suspend me for being an instigator

[m174]

saftey issues as well

Much less you forget I was one of the first to have a air system in a capsule and tried to push for it to be maditory, and along the same lines when there were rules that were made for no reason, I worked with Bob Wartinger, to make them have more study before being implied, I was just trying to keep things safe, and in line as there were others that were making the rules without even owing a capsule much less driving one, its seems to come to mind the others that had a accident, Mr. Bob Galetta Sr. , Howard Anderson,Robert Marshall, Bill Rucker, oh yes lets no forget the 2 guys that came to the nationals with 45ss that ran in 1100 hydro (open hydros),and ran into each other, head on, the list goes on HOORAY FOR OPEN BOATS!) it just eliminates the competition, just do me a favor and keep them out there, so I dont have to read the obitiuarites and see your name, or try and figure out where you are going on the race course!

[Dave M]

Nice Idea

Hellooooooo, any one remember the 60% sponson rule I thought we could discuss? Now its just become a capsule/noncapsule attack. Several times before, Dan has threatend to ban the word "capsule" Dont give him reason to. Even worse, he may suspend me for being an instigator

I think that could be revisited. We could design a hull that will run over the rougher water, fine tune it for a few years and then maybe bring it in as a new hull. Might not take long to fine tune it with all the experts out there, such as Pugh, MJR, Giles, Hemp, JDS, Silvestri, and many more that could have input.

I think new radical design could be the future. I also think we should keep it no capsule. If you don't want to read about the obituaries in the paper, don't purchase a copy of the newspaper. I believe in choice, and right there you have your choice.

I am thinking of this on much more broad terms, Mod, Pro and Stock. But one thing we all have to promise............... don't let red tape get in the way.

I for one intend to do a little experimenting in the next couple years on different hulls to find a nice bad ass thrilling ride and yet handle rougher water.

So there, Eric, you ar eback on track in your thread. Maybe we should all watch Kevin Costner's move again..... the famous quote " if you build it, they will come"..............................

[nightmoves]

Hmmmmmm

I like te other quote, "Pain heals, chicks dig scars but glory is forever!"

YES we all take the risk whenever we get into the boat and go racing, YES you can get hurt doing anything with or without a motor,walking, cars, bikes, sex etc....
M174 I dont mean any disrespect but what is your point? Yes this is dangerous we know this, it will never be foolproof. We are open to new safety suggestions, devices. Noone wants to get hurt, we arent suicidal.
As for the other topic, the european circuit runs all tunnell hulls and there class keeps growing as where we dont run tunnells and ours keeps decreasing.
As I stated before we are looking into this class and will probably buy in this year once I figured out the runabout,
so how bout we figure out this idea of Big sponson or Little sponson so I can decide where to throw my money!
Thanks

[sam]

I am with Eric on this. I have thought from the beginning that the capsule should have been just one of several ideas considered to make 500-700-1100 safer. I was quite surprized when the 500 Sprint idea came about; but I still lean to the 500cc FAT boat (be it hydro or tunnel) idea to keep 500cc racing in the insurance company's "safe" zone without a capsule.

Maybe it could be called 500RHHT (500 rut, lol) for restricted heavy hydro tunnel

And if 350s are really pushing it up there .... current 350 drivers need to start thinking rut soon too.

[sam]

Could a 4 point be developed into a restricted slower 500 boat? What about a hybrid 4 pt/tunnel?

[m174]

It boils down to this

What needs to be done is just abide by the rules, like others have said to bring new classes to pro isnt going to do anything, the primary concern is to abide by the rules, and find drivers that will do so, new hulls and combinding classes wont do anything, originally the reinforced cockpit wont use the word capsule, was for saftey which everyone knows was needed, it was just the making of rules by others that seemed never ongoing without the input of the builders or drivers that have made this such a mess, there needs to be more comminucation not just yelling and screaming, I know Im at the top of the list for this trying to help us stay alive, to each their own to run what they want to be open or enclosed boats, its just a thing of getting support from the drivers and having the upper level at least listen to our input, that only seems fair, there isnit a lot of new enclosed boats being built for pro, due to the things that are going on at the time, and will stay that way until something happens to make the bigger classes more viable again, So all in all I think instead of just going off (which I have a tendancy to do) we need to just go and get back to( the go fast turn left thing,) and again its our fault and we need to fix it, this will be the end result and not to help to be the demise of the pro bigger classes. We need no new rules we just have to live with what we have and make it work, used to be that way