Future of OMC A and Merc 15

[hagerl8m]

OMC, Merc. HotRod

The Mod guys can have the OMC motor, if that happens I’ve got three for sale. But I’ll let them sit in the trailer for anther couple years; maybe they will be worth something for parts. People don't learn much from history or pay much attention to it. The Stock commission without a membership vote replaced the KG4. Why maybe because the motor had been modified so much it cost too much to get a new one. So the new omc was mandated. Racers then modified the omc too. Strange how fast that happened. Now we have a "stock" let me repeat that "stock" motor being offered to us and people want to keep an old motor around. The cool thing that Hotrod has said and will keep saying is that the motor will stay stock. Well unless it used in mod. But that is a different story. I race BSR and on any given weekend there are 8 drivers that can go out and win, to that is what racing should be. Not the same person going out and winning every time. That’s the kind of thing that drives people out of the sport. Trust me I’ve asked and if you don't go out to a drive that quit within the past 10 years that will be one of the major reasons they quit. Now does anyone remember the days of factory support at races, well I sure do, and Hotrod is offering us that again, why is it so hard to take something that is going to help our sport and embrace it? It is funny to know people that have been around to see these changes in our sport and haven't learned from them yet. And on the tuck issue, I didn't care; the BOD said it was a safety issue so I will follow the rule. Don’t call it antics call it protecting us.

Chris Hagerl 8m
History Major, Earth Science Minor

Oh yeah almost forgot any motor that can be converted back into a fishing motor is not considered a racing motor. Checked it for you.

[14-H]

(Hearn, Greaves, Read, Dawe and Wheeler) *** These are all bright, knowledgeable and capable individuals that have the ability to provide a well reasoned set of solutions acceptable to the majority.

Now THAT, I disagree with! LOL!!! 14-H

[Dr. Thunder]

Now THAT, I disagree with! LOL!!! 14-H

What! You don't think that R. Steven Hearn is bright, knowledgeable and capable?

[Dr. Thunder]

The Mod guys can have the OMC motor ...

Agree .. they should get it and it should be THE motor for FAR/FAH for many years to come.


... if that happens I’ve got three for sale. But I’ll let them sit in the trailer for anther couple years; maybe they will be worth something for parts.

And why would you want to do that?


People don't learn much from history or pay much attention to it. The Stock commission without a membership vote replaced the KG4.

I thought you were opposed to the membership voting on an issue like this. Quote from an earlier post "Dr. Thunder said that the membership should vote, that should not happen ..."

So the new omc was mandated.

Should any motor be "mandated" or should our elected representatives agree on a strategy and then subject it to a referendum of the membership?


Racers then modified the omc too.

Modified or cheated?

Now we have a "stock" let me repeat that "stock" motor being offered to us and people want to keep an old motor around.

If you are referring to the OMC "J/A" ... then yes it should be kept around ... but not for A or J Stock classes. Even when the Hot Rod becomes a proven commodity the OMC still should be raced ... in the Formula A classes.


The cool thing that Hotrod has said and will keep saying is that the motor will stay stock. Well unless it used in mod. But that is a different story. I race BSR and on any given weekend there are 8 drivers that can go out and win, to that is what racing should be. Not the same person going out and winning every time. That’s the kind of thing that drives people out of the sport ...

Bingo! Exactly right ... that is what make the American Hot Rod project one of the most exciting programs for growth in stock outboard most of us have seen in the last 40 years.

Now does anyone remember the days of factory support at races, well I sure do, and Hotrod is offering us that again, why is it so hard to take something that is going to help our sport and embrace it?

Embrace it! I'm on a crusade ... I'm 100% behind the project and don't want to see the dialogue and subsequent decision making relegated to a "let's wait and see" mentality. We need to keep talking about this subject all throughout this coming Spring and Summer ... throughout the current racing season. Talk about it at Bakersfield, Ocoee, Camden etc. Let your ideas be known, be heard. Then put it in the hands of our most knowledgeable members to formulate a strategic process and timeline for implementation. After that bring it back to the membership as one of the most important voting issues in years!

It is funny to know people that have been around to see these changes in our sport and haven't learned from them yet.

Chris, I'm over 60 years old and I've seen plenty of changes in APBA over the years ... some good and some really, really bad. This is a premier opportunity for us to not let history repeat itself!


And on the tuck issue, I didn't care; the BOD said it was a safety issue so I will follow the rule. Don’t call it antics call it protecting us.

Personally speaking ... I believe they ultimately made the right decision. The BOD antics referenced had absolutely nothing to do with "tuck or not tuck". Safety should always be our first priority no matter how it is packaged.

Chris Hagerl 8m
History Major, Earth Science Minor

Oh yeah almost forgot any motor that can be converted back into a fishing motor is not considered a racing motor. Checked it for you.

Can you convert a Hot Rod into a fishing motor?

[Andrew 4CE]

I agree the ASH is the most brutal ride out there I've ever been in too. But too small?? Measure one up compared to a boat 20 years ago. My boat is as big as my fathers B hydro (20H Merc) from the 70's.

I don't think the rough ride has to do with the size anyway. It's the speed and hydro shape... I flies over the water, but not with enough speed to skip from wave to wave like the bigger classes, it drops off every single wave and you feel it to your bones, haha. And it's too fast to really displace water like the J's and doesn't displace water like the ASR.

Weight might help... but we need a class for us fly weights don't forget. I don't a crew of 6 to lift the boat into the water.

Bone jaring ride for sure though But I like it

Not being able to win in a dozen or 2 dozen races isn't stopping me from running A. Having old brittle bones is. Compared to the bigger classes the ride in A is bone jarring rough ..... these old bones will leave it to young people with soft bones.

I might not be the only old foaggie that tried a ride in A and decided it wasn't for me.

My feeling is that in the greedy quest for speed during the past 50 years, A hydros have evolved to be too small and too light.

[Joe J]

I am all for a new "stock" engine. As has been stated already, the OMC's have been modified way beyond the original intent.

Maybe it would be worth looking into a "Claiming" rule when the Hot Rod is introduced. This may make people think twice about putting all the extra money into an engine that could be bought for replacement cost.

Joe

[Merc1]

Claiming Rule

That would be fun to watch. We all know there are certain motors that end up just being a little bit better than the others. And if you've got one your gonna want to keep it, People would riot!

[Dr. Thunder]

Maybe it would be worth looking into a "Claiming" rule when the Hot Rod is introduced. This may make people think twice about putting all the extra money into an engine that could be bought for replacement cost.

Joe

Great idea Joe ... isn't this the perfect time to revisit this subject?

The single greatest challenge for the SORC after approval of any new Hot Rod "stock" engine will be how to keep it "stock".

A claiming rule should be seriously considered by the SORC. They would have plenty of time to work out the details of such a plan with the Hot Rod folks between now and when the engine is approved.

I'd be very interested in hearing any other list members thoughts on this subject.

[G Stillwill]

Keeping the motor stock isnt a problem just dont aprove any changes in it unless it for a safty reason or a durability reason. As far as being able to claim a motor after someone has put the time in it to get the most out of it not by blue printing or by cheating with it just by working with timing, carb settings and set ups. I dont care if they approve a Brigs and Straton the guys that run up front will run up front because they put the time in. So here comes Joe blow and claims the motor and runs half way decent till the motor goes away then pawns it off on some newbe and claims someone elses motor. If your going to have a new motor that cant be tampered with then you are going to have to have a real inspection at every race even if just for those motors. To me a claiming rule is just for those that dont want to put the time and effort in the sport to really be competitive. My two cents

[sam]

But that is the idea, George... no blueprinting .... run it as it was bought, not put more "effort" into it

The down side of this is, like diamonds and props, no 2 motors are exactly alike. Some truely as bought motors will be exceptional and some will be less. I'd imagine that most of the "claimed" motors would turn out to be equal to the motors they beat ..... the effort belongs in set up and props in Stock motor racing.

A claiming rule on props would be more harsh than motors.

[Dr. Thunder]

The down side of this is, like diamonds and props, no 2 motors are exactly alike. Some truely as bought motors will be exceptional and some will be less.

Help me here Sam ... why would this be? Why would some be exceptional and others just so-so? Shouldn't we expect that American Hot Rod will exercise considerably more quality control over production and assembly than we have seen in some instances in the past with "not really made for racing" powerheads? Wouldn't/shouldn't we expect that performance variables would be pretty much engineered out of the final product? Am I being way too naive here or what?

[sam]

Making them that precise will increase the cost considerably. CNC machining should reduce the variation, but it will not eliminate it. Cast parts will sitll have to have flashing ground off by hand, etc. No 2 will be exactly the same, they will be within a range. Hopefully there will be no performance variation, but that usually comes by different manufacturing process.

Nothing would stop someone with unlimited cash from purchasing 6 or 10 motors and selecting the best one or combination of best parts to make an "untouched" blueprinted motor. Chyrsler got caught doing that by NASCAR back in the late 1960's.

[G Stillwill]

There is no real reason why some motors are faster then others even with consectitive serial numbers they just are. You can build ten motors all the same and built with the same care and one will just be faster then the others. It could be the way the metal reacts to heat and things stay truer in some motors then others even with the same castings. This just doesnt pertain to just boat motors either its the same in all motors sports. I know guys that would take an eceptional motor and just run it at the divisionals and nationals. Not that they didnt have good mtors to run at all the races but not like that one. My Dad would keep the best KG-4 in the trailer box and run the second motor which was probably a mile an hour slower then the best one. In 1962 he fliped and blew the best motor at the divisionals but the second motor was good enough to win the Nationals out of a 137 A hydros. All the new hotrods will be put on a dyno before they are sold to make sure that they are pretty even. As far as just working on props and set ups are concerned if thats all you do you will be looking at a lot of transoms. Its a fact of life you need to work on the whole package because if you dont someone else will and its called racing. Not saying blueprinting or not running a motor as you get it but some motors like more timming some dont some you can run a slightly bigger jet or a smaller jet and the guys that run out front will find out what works the best. To come right down to it the only way to keep things that even is to run like they do in Japan and just drive whater boat you draw.

[John Schubert]

Chrysler in NASCAR

Making them that precise will increase the cost considerably. CNC machining should reduce the variation, but it will not eliminate it. Cast parts will sitll have to have flashing ground off by hand, etc. No 2 will be exactly the same, they will be within a range. Hopefully there will be no performance variation, but that usually comes by different manufacturing process.

Nothing would stop someone with unlimited cash from purchasing 6 or 10 motors and selecting the best one or combination of best parts to make an "untouched" blueprinted motor. Chyrsler got caught doing that by NASCAR back in the late 1960's.

Sam,

And guess who it was doing the mix & match parts? Carl Kiekaefer him self, or his paid hired hands.

[Dr. Thunder]

Nothing would stop someone with unlimited cash from purchasing 6 or 10 motors and selecting the best one or combination of best parts to make an "untouched" blueprinted motor. Chyrsler got caught doing that by NASCAR back in the late 1960's.

Does blueprinting an engine effectively remove casting imperfections?

Since (and I'm assuming here) the new Hot Rod engines will not be produced in the same numbers and using the same assembly procedures that large production run engine manufacturing require ... is there any reason that ALL Hot Rod units coming off assembly wouldn't be blueprinted thus making it uneccesary to cherry pick or worry that some insider might be doing the same? Wouldn't APBA SORC be looking to Hot Rod for the inspection templates anyway? I'm dumb as a brick about this stuff so if I'm way off base let me know!