36 Runabout Motors

[bill boyes]

Thanks for all the info guys. My research shows that Mercury built a 2-cylinder Merc 350 (35hp) from '62-'69. First 3 were 30 cu.in. and last 4 were 32.5 cu.in. The a Merc 400 (40hp) in '70 and '71. The Merc 402 was from '72 on. All these were 33.3 cu.in.
There was a kilo record set in '76 by George Publow at 58.765 using a Merc. Guessing that was a 402.
Anyone know if all these Mercs were legal?

Wow 58.765 in a 36. Geez most CU's with the 30H did not go that fast.

[tim71f]

36 Runabout Motors

Referring to the last two posts, if a Merc won 36 Runabout in 1970 it wouldn't be a 402 since the 402 didn't come out till '72.
Was the 402XS a fishing motor or the same as the 35SS?
That kilo record was set 6/5/76 in Kaukauna WS. Does sound high unless it was a 35SS/402.

[Ron Hill]

Without Sounding Like A Jackass

If a Mercury broke a Kilo record in Wisconsin in this "ERA", I think it should be tossed out. We may have to have 36 Division I (Chrysler) and 36 Division II (Mercury). My 35 SS Runabout record was either 74 or 76 MPH. The 402 has t aton of more power than the Chrysler. The 30 cubic inch Merc stock could not beat the Chrysler.

We need to dig up the rule book, and maybe vote on new rules.

Just like the Model 80..it was never a "B" but I'd like to see the Model 80 Yamato out there racing.

The truth is, the 36 class was very happy NOT being a Mercury class.

Boat racing built Mercury Marine and our reward is?

[Yellowjacket]

Referring to the last two posts, if a Merc won 36 Runabout in 1970 it wouldn't be a 402 since the 402 didn't come out till '72.
Was the 402XS a fishing motor or the same as the 35SS?
That kilo record was set 6/5/76 in Kaukauna WS. Does sound high unless it was a 35SS/402.

I have an original 35ss in the garage right now. It is essentially a 55H tower (but that tower has the later powerhead bolt pattern), and a 55H gearfoot with the 35 powerhead. As I understand it the 402ss is the same thing.

[Ron Hill]

I Thought It Had The Same Bolt Pattern

I may never have really looked at my 402 XS when we had it apart, but I thought it had the same powerhead bolt pattern as the Mark 30-H, Mark 55-H and all the four cylinder 44's. But 36 years later, I could be wrong.

. Kiekhaefer resigned as president of the company in 1969, and the company name changed to Mercury Marine. I checked when Carl left Mercury Marine. After 1969 Mercury was never the same, except they didn't want Chrysler, Tohatsu, Yamaha or Suzuki racing in APBA, which they controlled for many, many, many years.....for very little money!

Mercury was all business after 1969, before that Carl wanted Mercury winning race no matter what it cost! (And it cost his his job).

[Yellowjacket]

I may never have really looked at my 402 XS when we had it apart, but I thought it had the same powerhead bolt pattern as the Mark 30-H, Mark 55-H and all the four cylinder 44's.

The 35ss and 402xs towers have the same bolt pattern as the later Merc 500's, which have the two rear bolts set back a bit more than the earlier Merc 55's and 30's, 400's and early 500's.

The Merc 500 bolt pattern changed in 65 (I think it was 65, but I'm, going from memory here and it could have been 64, but it was sometime around there). And was the same from then until they stopped production of the "Classic 50". The 500 bolt pattern changed when they went to the different combustion chamber and spark plug configuration.

The later 500 powerhead drops right onto the 35ss/402xs tower, which is a legal combination in NBRA.

[tim71f]

36 Runabout Motors

I have a picture from a Time-Life book showing the pits at the National Marathon Championship races on the Cooper River in Collingswood NJ. In it you can see a 36 Runabout (222-M) with a white Chrysler. There are two other boats with black Mercury's with fishing lower units. Don't know the year of the race but the book is copyright 1976.
If Ron's kilo record was 74mph with a 35SS I've got to believe the 36 record of 58+mph in '76 was with a 402 fishing motor. Does anyone have a 1976 APBA Stock Inspection Manual that could clarify which Mercury and Chrysler motors were legal in 36 Runabout?

[hpick86n]

402

I have in my hand a 1974 and a 1976 Mercury spec. sheet submitted to APBA .It lists the Merc 400 and Merc 402 as class 36 . It lists the gear ratio as 13-26 which justifies my previous post that the only 36 Mercury was a 402 with the fishing lower unit.I have another sheet dated 10\1975 that lists the 402 with a quicksilver lower unit for the 35SS class that APBA just started.The 35SS and the 36 classes are two different animals.At that time we use to call 36 class adult JU .

[tim71f]

36 Runabout Motors

I think hpick86n has just clarified the whole question. I did find in the shop manual that the difference in the 400 and the 402 was that the 402 had breakerless ignition. I don't think either the 400 or 402 were available in short shaft so it would take quite a transom extension to run them.
Thanks for all the help. I might just stay with the Chrysler I have.

[laddies]

The difference between a 400 and 402 is the 400 used a timer plate, distributer plate and rotor under the flywheel and the 402 had a stator and trigger, the 402 was ADI ignition. The 400 and 402 fishing engines were available in short shaft.

[tim71f]

36 Runabout Motors

Thanks for the info on the differences in the 400 and 402. The 1974 had what Mercury called Direct Charging. Did the 400 have it and what was it?
I've got a '71 400 and now I'll have to go look at it.

[laddies]

Both used the same porting and the port timing was about the same the 400 had several kits to make it run better they worked on some and some never ran well. Even in the day a lot of marines would not work on them, we had good luck with them but still had a couple that we were not happy with. If you walked in the door today with one, someone would tell they were not that great of engine when new, why fool with one now. The 402 were typical 2 cyl. shakers but we used them for rental pontoons and got good service from them.

[Ron Hill]

Turtle Express

I will be the first to admit, when 36 Runabout was a class I called it JU for adults. It was only after APBA dropped it as a class that I realized the 36 class "Carried" our club. They were commodore, race chairman, finance chairman and publicity chairman and they were our patrol boats.

I really only raced 36 two or three times...my boat "TURTLE EXPRESS" won two fo the three races. Max McPeek and Johnny Puesto ran my 36 at the Winternationals in `973 in F Runabout. The DeSilva's weren't happy to see my DeSilva 36 racing in F Runabout.

I hope to finish the minutes from reno today and then post it and the rule changes that will occur in 30 days on the apba website.
My next step planned is to work on the classics and the first thing I need is to find the old rules.

When Harold Barnes passed, his wife gave me all of his rule books and reference books so I think I have that part covered.

What I really need is the last tech manual for each class, so I will be searching for those so I can add them to the website for all.

I appreciate your support and look forward to seeing a 36 race again.

More soon,
Jeff

[Ron Hill]

My Fear Is The 402 Mercury

I fear the 402 Mercury will be faster than the Chrysler. The good news is the Stock Commission has established a Competition Committee. So, if the 402 was never legal, it would be smart to make it legal as I know where a half dozen are. But, some people want to race Chryslers or Force motors, so the competition Committee could require a transom height to slow the Merc's down. Seems this would be easy!

[Yellowjacket]

I fear the 402 Mercury will be faster than the Chrysler. The good news is the Stock Commission has established a Competition Committee. So, if the 402 was never legal, it would be smart to make it legal as I know where a half dozen are. But, some people want to race Chryslers or Force motors, so the competition Committee could require a transom height to slow the Merc's down. Seems this would be easy!

That's a good point Ron.

I really like the idea of a class where a standard lower unit can run and think that it would be good for the sport. 36 seemed to be a good formula and fishing motors are a good way to provide an easy entry into the sport.

The problem is, if there aren't a lot of boats out there with tall transoms there won't be lot of participation and that will mean the class would have a very slow start.

But if you have a D runabout and a 402xs and it's legal, you will have a lot more participation than if you need to have to buy a boat with a high transom just to run one class.

Sounds like the 35ss killed the class way back when, but now if they did it right, it might be a way to make the class work.

Just thinking out loud...