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**HydroKyle93R** · 12-24-2013, 03:58 PM

I really like your BSH class.

**dixon 5ce** · 12-24-2013, 10:38 PM

this will be the premo class !!!! every one will want to run this fun ,fun,fun

lets rock!!!!!!!

5ce

**WalkWithMax** · 12-26-2013, 03:43 PM

Sidewinder

Rob,
Thanks for helping us move forward Rob!

Will you be running a 15 or 20 Sidewinder? Does the 15 sidewinder have the same length of shaft as an OMC?

It will be interesting to see how these motors run this year!

Dave Muir.
(ASH/ OMC)

**dixon 5ce** · 12-26-2013, 07:19 PM

sidewinder

thanks

I will be running both motors this year!
we will spend the season in Canada fine tuning the classes we will make it work! hopefully apba will take notice and consider something along the same lines. we will still be able to run in the u.s. with these motors abiding by the current class rules. as for the transom height the omc and sidewinder should be using heights that are similar give or take a few shims. hopefully I get a few more comments positive or negative, this will work and take us into the future!!!!!

thanks rob d

**G Stillwill** · 12-27-2013, 04:25 AM

The 15 and 20 Sidewinder are the same as the Hotrod as far as motor set back and heigth and completely different then the OMC and Merc 15

**deeougee** · 01-01-2014, 07:20 AM

This plan makes sense, it actually follows quite a bit of what's already in place, ie. 15 ssh and bsh. This is an inclusionary plan versus an exclusionary plan. Everyone has a place to participate in racing based on their own criteria whether it be cost, speed, reliability, have fun, etc. No one is stepping on anyone's toes here. Question about the 20 motor? Which version of the 20 Sidewinder are we going to use here Rob? There is a standard, high output and factory mod motor available. I would assume we are going to use the standard or the high output version for stock and the mod version for mod. What class is the mod motor going to be fit into? By the way you can get these motors from the factory with electric start, there is a picture on this site of one.

**dixon 5ce** · 01-01-2014, 11:17 AM

canadian plan

in Canada our plans is to use the "b" sidewinder currently being used is the U.S. as the restricted motor for bsh. We will be using that engine unrestricted and 1/2 inch. height and 400lbs weight to compete with the old 20 hot rod together making sure that the sidewinder will be dominate! this way if a driver wants to go to the U.S. to race he can put in the restricter and make the class weight with minimal work other then possible prop change, we will be testing these, soon as the ice is gone to get it as close as possible! I am hopfull that this might be a plan that apba can look at and just maybe use for the future.i have kept the plan like this so the motors can be used in both cbf. and apba with little changes required . As for the mod version we don't have them in Canada at this point but will address it when the time comes.

rob dixon

**G Stillwill** · 01-02-2014, 03:50 AM

The 15S Sidewinder A will never be competitive with the 15 Hotrod in your 15SS class as your talking about picking up 5 to 6 mile an hour with it and thats not going to happen. The current B stock boat is to small to run the speeds for your new B stock class and would require a new boat, a good 20 Hotrod will run 70 MPH. Not sure how you can come up with the class structure with no test data to base it on.

**dixon 5ce** · 01-02-2014, 08:39 AM

George

I have raced 20 hot rods as well as 20h's and a's ,25xs's, 44xs's, 20ssh, for years we have tested some of this stuff I have a real good 20h runs 65mph.tops I had a good 20 rod that run 65-66 tops these motors still run in B classic up here in Canada. This plan will be tweaked to make it work. as far as boats a lot of 0ur 20h boats are bigger than the old days my boat is 70inch in the back 10ft overall that is the average these days up here this should work well in bsh hell my old 25 boat was that big and it run 73mph all day long!as well a 20ssh boat will work great for this class. The reason we are going to run it this way is to get racing test data as well,look at "A" hydro my omc will test at 58.5mph at whitney point I didn't break 55mph in the elim's true fact! what we see testing will not always be the same racing. As far as 15ssh I am not suggesting running "A" boats you will need a"15" boat for that if the hod rod is faster we will slow it down this will give the old and new a place to run. jacking the"A" sidewinder up 1-1/4 and changing wheels should speed it up a fair bit.This gives the person buying a new motor a chance to run two classes making the purchase more viable. What I see now in apba the old 15 has not much chance against the restricted 20 sidewinder at the current rule base.as I have said we will work it out and I will post real speeds and test data for all to see in order to make this happen it is the only way no secrets!!!!! if we do not try,nothing will ever happen and that is not good for the sport!

thanks rob d

**deeougee** · 01-02-2014, 01:57 PM

Exactly, if we do nothing we gain nothing. There are some people who put a lot of effort into the sidewinder product, now it's time to use it. There is a youtube video of Jeff Brewster testing a sidewinder 20 as set up for 20 ssh, 1 3/8" height. The top speed was 62.4 mph on gps shown on the video. It's just a matter of testing to put the product on the water that we are happy with and the input will come from everyone. There are many different boat / engine combinations that work, everyone is not running the same rig. Now it's time to just do it!

**Matt Dagostino** · 01-03-2014, 02:39 PM

Whitney Point Data

Originally posted by dixon 5ce View Post

this is what we come up with in the north to ease the sidewinders into our format and cause the least amount of confusion to what the motors are intended for.here goes the format probationary for 2014

a stock hydro

omc a I/2 tuck changed to (1 inch.) tuck 345lbs
'a' sidewinder 1-3/4 height 1/2 tuck and (365lbs.)
a merc unchanged
the tuck to the omc will give it a little more life so we can build the number of winders before moving it to classic or fah the weight change on the winder does a couple things it will soften the power and will make it easier for bigger drivers who don't want to go faster, find a home

merry Christmas to all and a good night!!!!!
r dixon

Hey Rob..........

At Whitney Point i thought the 2 fastest ASH's were from Canada with France powered OMC's?? Seemed the fastest Sidewinder was 3rd fastest qualifier.

Just curious why you want to handicap the Sidewinder to where it will be a middle of the pack ride? Also the new 1/4 mile straightaway record is 58mph with a Sidewinder. Don't the OMC's testing go even faster than that?

Just wondering where you are getting your data from..

Cheers and Happy 2014

Matt

**dixon 5ce** · 01-03-2014, 03:22 PM

hey matt

the data I gave for whitney point was my own! I can test at 58.5 but can only pull 55mph in a heat race. in Canada we have a good class of omc's and don't want to ruin it right away we will test in spring to make sure that it is as close as possible once I receive my sidewinders. as you remember at lockhaven I run my good stuff and could not compete with the fast sidewinders so this requires some work, if we do not try we will go nowhere. I know that my motor is probably one of the best so it should be a good starting point. as far as the added weight this is for new people or people moving up can do so if there normally to heavy to run the class some people don't want to go faster!
as you remember at grass lake you were 30lbs. over in the "A" and didn't seem to hurt to much so I don't think it is a real big deal I guess we will se
believe me we are dedicated to this whole process.

thanks rob

**Matt Dagostino** · 01-04-2014, 07:44 AM

Ash

Originally posted by dixon 5ce View Post

hey matt

the data I gave for whitney point was my own! I can test at 58.5 but can only pull 55mph in a heat race. in Canada we have a good class of omc's and don't want to ruin it right away we will test in spring to make sure that it is as close as possible once I receive my sidewinders. as you remember at lockhaven I run my good stuff and could not compete with the fast sidewinders so this requires some work, if we do not try we will go nowhere. I know that my motor is probably one of the best so it should be a good starting point. as far as the added weight this is for new people or people moving up can do so if there normally to heavy to run the class some people don't want to go faster!
as you remember at grass lake you were 30lbs. over in the "A" and didn't seem to hurt to much so I don't think it is a real big deal I guess we will se
believe me we are dedicated to this whole process.

thanks rob

Rob...
It is great you guys are working on a formula to incorporate the NEW Sidewinder into your program in Canada. I don't think anyone has all the answers now, but with more testing and racing it will all sort itself out.

I believe we should look at keeping the CLASS speeds in check. ASH's should be in the 56-59mph range. Looks like here in my area the Sidewinders are there. Also a GOOD OMC is in that range on any given day. Trying to achieve Parity between those two engine will be tough given the nature of their engineering. Ron F. gave me a good lecture on all that and i agree with him.

Oh, at Grass Lake i had my 'skinny' Kevlars on and weighed in right at 365 in ASH.

**dixon 5ce** · 01-05-2014, 08:01 AM

hey matt

the most challenging class will be the ASH this one is tuff!nothing in the proposal is set in stone it needs tweaking. I do not completely agree with the assumption that a good omc. will compete with the sidewinder we need to be carefull not to upset the apple cart! to many omc's around for that. we cannot put the omc. out until we have enough sidewinders to complete a class . that will be a issue in A.P.B.A. as well you can see that coming. make the motors closer and buy the omc. a little time so to build the sidewinder numbers up! if you look at it by region it is good in yours but not great in others you have to look as a whole not per region. I am figuring it will take a couple of years up here to make the transition were the omc. can be moved to classic or formula depending on the owners preference,I am hoping A.P.B.A. has a look at the plan there might be some good points in it for the south as well it's not perfect but it is a start it leaves the current big classes alone which ruffel's less feathers! matt from what you say in grass lake you were over by 20lbs I guess I need glasses while looking at the scales, never the less even at the 20lbs over it did not seem to hurt your performance at all ( great run) so that it should not hurt doing the increase to 365lbs this will allow bigger people to run the class as to there speed and cost as they did not have the option before with little chance of competitive.
I do agree that the class speed should be kept in check! you give the winders another year or two they will be over 60mph that could be a problem in the near future, just another thing to look at in the spring. I have said it before by no means will this be easy, we are dedicated to making it work!!!!!!!!
nothing ventured nothing gained!!
thanks for your input Matt I like to see people's inputs on this it will further help in the process.

happy new year
rob d

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