what bored dummy came up with these rules??

[Jason Diamond]

It's very much like a roadside accident... I know I'm not suppose to look, but I just can't help it! Whenever I see a new post I click to see where it's going next!

[reed28n]

A bit of debate

soo where at lawerance this weekend and getting boats inspected before we can race,,, all of sudden inspector says sponson not round enough,,, and ya need a born on date... said what the----- you talking about..... i figg that the fricken stockers,,,,,, he sai's nope that everyone now,, i said ya got to be -----kidding me,,,nope,,,,,, sooo why rounded pickles i asked.. so wont go threw someone when ya hit them,,, i said by the time i hit them rounded or not the impact alone will rupture everything in him and kill him anyway,,,,,,, then asked born on date he just shrugged,,,, i only care when my beer born,,, so what the sam heck all the new waste of time rules to make it harder on us racers???? no wonder people leaveing the sport as i see it these rules abselutely someones winter bordem... any explanations appreciated,,,,cheyney

This was a UIM rule that there was a big push to adopt. Stuff like this wastes a lot of time within our membership. APBA as a whole should have taken the proffessional opinion of reliable engineeers and consulted our insurance carrier. If it was in the best interest of APBA (which most safety rules are) thenit should have been implemented across the board without membership votes etc...... Safety should not be category by category, we have elected representatives that should eb protecting the interest of APBA and should call balls and strikes on safety.

let the categories screw up other stuff. Have one rule for kneel down boats, no grandfathering, no debate just cut the points off if thats what they want and get it done.

Our membership dollars totalled in the tens of thousands of dollars on this subject, by the time APBA reimbursed everyone's expenses to the national meetings, conference call expenses, pringitn expenses for multiple rules (when we printed a rule book), having different rules for different categories, change the rules, moving their implementation dates and so on.... now 8 years later we haven't got everyone on the same page.

Make the rule..... enforce it .... done. Let's race!

I am go suit up in my red helmet, broken zipper on my kevlar pants, torn sleeves, buckleless lifejacket and get in my boat with the bottom falling out, the outlined numbers and with the kill switch you didn't check, the almost full butterfly on my carb you didn't check, and run my 75 mph DMH set a pick for your 100 FEH right in the middle fo the turn so your can prove that your pickle points are our greatest safety concern.

[Matt Dagostino]

Potato vs. Patato

This was a UIM rule that there was a big push to adopt. Stuff like this wastes a lot of time within our membership. APBA as a whole should have taken the proffessional opinion of reliable engineeers and consulted our insurance carrier. If it was in the best interest of APBA (which most safety rules are) thenit should have been implemented across the board without membership votes etc...... Safety should not be category by category, we have elected representatives that should eb protecting the interest of APBA and should call balls and strikes on safety.

let the categories screw up other stuff. Have one rule for kneel down boats, no grandfathering, no debate just cut the points off if thats what they want and get it done.

Our membership dollars totalled in the tens of thousands of dollars on this subject, by the time APBA reimbursed everyone's expenses to the national meetings, conference call expenses, pringitn expenses for multiple rules (when we printed a rule book), having different rules for different categories, change the rules, moving their implementation dates and so on.... now 8 years later we haven't got everyone on the same page.

Make the rule..... enforce it .... done. Let's race!

I am go suit up in my red helmet, broken zipper on my kevlar pants, torn sleeves, buckleless lifejacket and get in my boat with the bottom falling out, the outlined numbers and with the kill switch you didn't check, the almost full butterfly on my carb you didn't check, and run my 75 mph DMH set a pick for your 100 FEH right in the middle fo the turn so your can prove that your pickle points are our greatest safety concern.

Screw UIM and the folks who look to jam there rules down our throats..........it's kinda like the metric system, if you want to use the metric system go move to Europe and have at it.

APBA stands for the AMERICAN Power Boat Association the last time i checked. Trying to merge their rules and ours is a joke and creates dissention amongst USA APBA Members in general. I am sure UIM has no interest in adopting our screwed up rule book?? Then why should we adopt there crap.

As a great country western once said, take UIM and SHOVE IT!! Well, something like that.

[bill boyes]

Matt, You know something really bugs me about UIM. The Helmet Color rules are very close to APBA's. But yet they have all those fancy paint jobs. WHY!!!!

[Dave M]

Well, Almost RIght

This was a UIM rule that there was a big push to adopt. Stuff like this wastes a lot of time within our membership. APBA as a whole should have taken the proffessional opinion of reliable engineeers and consulted our insurance carrier. If it was in the best interest of APBA (which most safety rules are) thenit should have been implemented across the board without membership votes etc...... Safety should not be category by category, we have elected representatives that should eb protecting the interest of APBA and should call balls and strikes on safety.

let the categories screw up other stuff. Have one rule for kneel down boats, no grandfathering, no debate just cut the points off if thats what they want and get it done.

Our membership dollars totalled in the tens of thousands of dollars on this subject, by the time APBA reimbursed everyone's expenses to the national meetings, conference call expenses, pringitn expenses for multiple rules (when we printed a rule book), having different rules for different categories, change the rules, moving their implementation dates and so on.... now 8 years later we haven't got everyone on the same page.

Make the rule..... enforce it .... done. Let's race!

I am go suit up in my red helmet, broken zipper on my kevlar pants, torn sleeves, buckleless lifejacket and get in my boat with the bottom falling out, the outlined numbers and with the kill switch you didn't check, the almost full butterfly on my carb you didn't check, and run my 75 mph DMH set a pick for your 100 FEH right in the middle fo the turn so your can prove that your pickle points are our greatest safety concern.

You are nearly right, in my opinion, which does not count anymore. The real problem is the fact they CAN'T and DON'T enforce the rules they already have ! It is open to interpretation by many individuals.... last years ASH fiasco is a prime example. The owners of the boats are not to blame, the racers are not blame, and the inspectors are not to blame. It is the lame ass hard to read rule and amount of those types of rules that confuse us grass roots racers. Period. We are not all World Reknown Engineers, and experts in the area of safety, most of grass roots racers have something that is not as common in the upper elitists....... common sense and the ability to use that common sense. Some people just never learn from history......

[ricochet112]

soo where at lawerance this weekend and getting boats inspected before we can race,,, all of sudden inspector says sponson not round enough,,, and ya need a born on date... said what the----- you talking about..... i figg that the fricken stockers,,,,,, he sai's nope that everyone now,, i said ya got to be -----kidding me,,,nope,,,,,, sooo why rounded pickles i asked.. so wont go threw someone when ya hit them,,, i said by the time i hit them rounded or not the impact alone will rupture everything in him and kill him anyway,,,,,,, then asked born on date he just shrugged,,,, i only care when my beer born,,, so what the sam heck all the new waste of time rules to make it harder on us racers???? no wonder people leaveing the sport as i see it these rules abselutely someones winter bordem... any explanations appreciated,,,,cheyney

Lawyers and insurance companies...

[ricochet112]

.....it's kinda like the metric system, if you want to use the metric system go move to any country except america.

fify!

[bill van steenwyk]

Lawyers and insurance companies...

I was told by someone in a responsible position with APBA several years ago, and also an insurance company rep, that the Insurance company has little input into safety rules unless something specific is called to their attention that would be an obvious hazard. That they ( the ins co.) depends on the sanctioning body (APBA or other body) that makes the rules, because of past experience in that field or sport, to come up with rules that will assure the safest field of participation for both drivers and spectators, and that the insurance company would have no or little input into those rules unless they saw something while attending a race or reading the rules (if they did so) that would be an obvious safety concern due to negligence or an oversight that was so obvious as to not escape scrutiny.

That is why they do send reps sometimes to observe at a race so as to see if the rules are being followed.

If I was told correctly, and I have no reason to believe I was not, then that is just another overriding reason to have someone (or someones) on the safety committees that use some common sense when these rules are formulated so that they are common sense and are not mandated just because someone somewhere else thought or thinks they are a good idea.

Then you also have the personalties that think if they are not making new rules, whether for a good reason or not, they are not being conscientious, good intentioned and doing their job. And then you have the ones that just like to exert their power because they can, no matter whether it makes good and reasonable sense or not. I guess it is up to the individual participant to decide whether APBA is at that stage........ or not.

[john527]

so, if you change your born on date to 2007 you will be legal, correct?

[reed28n]

Rules on top of rules

I was told by someone in a responsible position with APBA several years ago, and also an insurance company rep, that the Insurance company has little input into safety rules unless something specific is called to their attention that would be an obvious hazard. That they ( the ins co.) depends on the sanctioning body (APBA or other body) that makes the rules, because of past experience in that field or sport, to come up with rules that will assure the safest field of participation for both drivers and spectators, and that the insurance company would have no or little input into those rules unless they saw something while attending a race or reading the rules (if they did so) that would be an obvious safety concern due to negligence or an oversight that was so obvious as to not escape scrutiny.

That is why they do send reps sometimes to observe at a race so as to see if the rules are being followed.

If I was told correctly, and I have no reason to believe I was not, then that is just another overriding reason to have someone (or someones) on the safety committees that use some common sense when these rules are formulated so that they are common sense and are not mandated just because someone somewhere else thought or thinks they are a good idea.

Then you also have the personalties that think if they are not making new rules, whether for a good reason or not, they are not being conscientious, good intentioned and doing their job. And then you have the ones that just like to exert their power because they can, no matter whether it makes good and reasonable sense or not. I guess it is up to the individual participant to decide whether APBA is at that stage........ or not.

It is amazing how many rules are introduced each year to police some action that can already be policed within the frame work of rules that were already in place. Got some stuff to fix of my own....

[form-e one]

john 527 and dave mason,,, great points and others,,,,,,, so mutch for reg 10 guys who cant read either... my point,,, first race of year,,, we where grandfatherd in ...we race a 1990"s i think pugh.. gearge luces blue and white boat in d-mod,,, so inspectors inspecting kill switches how dont know nun ya had ohm meter/volt meter,,, nobody looked for full butter-flys...,,,,, as i thought we where grandfatherd,,, they the inspectors ALL said no the rules have now changed??? we all have to change the boats..ie sponson tips and born on date.. NO grandfather,,, i said that just stocks ,,, they said that thay luv me but noooo,,,, you have to get it done now or dont race... mmmm,,, dont get me wrong the inspectors are volunteers,,, and these guys i luv and have raced with them near 30 years,,, but what the f---- have the rules and how there written have come to,, that we common folk miss interpret them???... ie if people are so bored to come up with this crap in the winter get a life,,, sorta like when we had to attach the kill switch to our wrists... then the kids fell out and broke there wrists,,,, so that was nullified real quick,,, lets get a life and think about things that are real and will ACTUALLY HELP our sport,, 5000 safety rules that mean nothing aint it... i do luv inspectors and there volunteereing,,,,

[csh12M]

I was told by someone in a responsible position with APBA several years ago, and also an insurance company rep, that the Insurance company has little input into safety rules unless something specific is called to their attention that would be an obvious hazard. That they ( the ins co.) depends on the sanctioning body (APBA or other body) that makes the rules, because of past experience in that field or sport, to come up with rules that will assure the safest field of participation for both drivers and spectators, and that the insurance company would have no or little input into those rules unless they saw something while attending a race or reading the rules (if they did so) that would be an obvious safety concern due to negligence or an oversight that was so obvious as to not escape scrutiny.

That is why they do send reps sometimes to observe at a race so as to see if the rules are being followed.

If I was told correctly, and I have no reason to believe I was not, then that is just another overriding reason to have someone (or someones) on the safety committees that use some common sense when these rules are formulated so that they are common sense and are not mandated just because someone somewhere else thought or thinks they are a good idea.

Then you also have the personalties that think if they are not making new rules, whether for a good reason or not, they are not being conscientious, good intentioned and doing their job. And then you have the ones that just like to exert their power because they can, no matter whether it makes good and reasonable sense or not. I guess it is up to the individual participant to decide whether APBA is at that stage........ or not.

You are 100% correct. Not only did APBA insurance reps visit Constantine, MI, but they went through Racer School. I talked with them at length about our rules and snow fence. They explained to me that they have NO input into our safety rules. What they are looking for at a race is, are we enforcing our own rules. If we did away with the rounded pickle for rule tomorrow, they would not blink an eye. If we keep it and don't enforce it, and then have an accident where it is a factor...then we have a problem. Its all about liability.

[dholt]

I highly doubt someone at APBA came up with the BS rule about snow fence, a Risk Mgr monitoring the entrance to the restricted area and 30 foot barriers from the water for spectators.

What a joke.

45 years of going to Stock/Mod races and never seen an issue that warranted these extreme, time consuming and man power draining measures.

[Matt Dagostino]

Amen

You are 100% correct. They explained to me that they have NO input into our safety rules. What they are looking for at a race is, are we enforcing our own rules. If we did away with the rounded pickle for rule tomorrow, they would not blink an eye.

This is why we need to stop with all the 'ticky tack' rules every year. Grass roots level racing is all about stability. Constant changing of safety rules, engine rules, boat rules, number rules etc etc just helps to upset members!!

Just say NO to more new rules!!

[csh12M]

I highly doubt someone at APBA came up with the BS rule about snow fence, a Risk Mgr monitoring the entrance to the restricted area and 30 foot barriers from the water for spectators.

What a joke.

45 years of going to Stock/Mod races and never seen an issue that warranted these extreme, time consuming and man power draining measures.

You are right on that specific point, but again it is liability. Spectators pose the largest risk to the insurance. We are getting lumped into the same rules that apply to larger categories. When I spoke with the insurance rep. I suggested changes like requiring us to come off plane prior to the outside course markers, or putting on your prop or removing it at the waters edge (instead of the pits). These would be more effective than snow fence. It was supposed to be reviewed at the National Meeting, not sure if anything happened.