General motor questions: APBA and NBRA D classes

[pearson95m]

I have some general questions to ask. I’m hoping to get a straight and to the point answer from someone who KNOWS the answer and not some jibba jabba from people who want this or want that, think this or think that. No opinions please, just facts.

I’ve read thru the rule books a few times and am trying to understand where my equipment (or future equipment) fits exactly in the various organizations. In particular I’m looking at APBA Stock, APBA Mod and NBRA. I’m confident with the APBA Stock rules, but still a bit unclear where I stand in APBA Mod and in the NBRA.

This is what I’ve got or might get in the future:

A.) 44XS motor. This motor I’ve won multiple nationals in APBA D Stock and passed inspection. (typical 44XS stock motor)
B.) 44 mod (built by Kelly Kidwell). This motor I’ve won APBA Mod 750 with and passed inspection. (typical 44 mod motor by kelly)
C.) 2013 or newer Tohatsu from Richmond Aero Marine (hoping to win that raffle… or win the lotto). (out of the box new)

My questions are (Runabout only):
1.) What classes can I run these motors in?
2.) What are the height restrictions for the classes listed in #1
3.) What are the weight restrictions for the classes in #1

In my understanding of the rules…. (runabouts only)

APBA D Stock – Motor A and C @515 – ¾” height
APBA 750 Mod – Motor A, B and C @No Weight – No height
APBA 850 Mod – Motor A, B and C @ No Weight – No Height

NBRA D Stock – Motor A and C @490 – Height?
NBRA E Super Stock – Motor A @490 – Height?
NBRA SE Super Stock – Motor C @No weight – Height?

Are my interpretations correct? Considering these particular 3 motors I own (or could own), are there other classes I’m missing? Keep in mind that I do understand there are other motors that can be used in these classes. I'm just looking for answers to the 3 motors i've listed above.

[johnml390]

In NBRA your 44xs and Tohatsu would run our D Runabout class. The 44 would run our E Runabout class. The Tohatsu is also allowed in our Super E Runabout as a legal engine. No height restrictions in NBRA. You seem to have it all right as far as placement for the NBRA. Just remember... in the rules, what ever engines are listed as "stock" are combined with the same engines listed in "super stock".

Example: D stock + D super stock = D Hydro/D Runabout

[Art K]

John has given the facts correctly. You are also allowed 4 blade props. The Tohatsu has been winning the D- Run all of last season. Not sure how well the 44xs will do. Nobody is down here is running one in Run. But I would bet yours would be more than competitive. Hope to see you at some of our races.
Art K Tech VP NBRA

[pearson95m]

Great, thanks for the info! But to make sure I have it right...

NBRA:
I can run motors A,B and C in the "E Runabout class".
I can run motor A and C in the "D Runabout class"

APBA:
Motors A, B and C in the "750Mod" and the "850mod" classes
Motors A and C in the "D stock classes"

None of these motors (in particular the Tohatsu) are "probationary"? Basiclly, i'm asking if I race a new Tohatsu motor, i'm eligable to actually win?

Thanks again for the information. To be honest, I've been hearing different things from different people. I want to make sure i'm spending my time and money on equipment that will actually mean something.

[mercguy]

Apba...

Great, thanks for the info! But to make sure I have it right...

NBRA:
I can run motors A,B and C in the "E Runabout class".
I can run motor A and C in the "D Runabout class"

APBA:
Motors A, B and C in the "750Mod" and the "850mod" classes
Motors A and C in the "D stock classes"

None of these motors (in particular the Tohatsu) are "probationary"? Basiclly, i'm asking if I race a new Tohatsu motor, i'm eligable to actually win?

Thanks again for the information. To be honest, I've been hearing different things from different people. I want to make sure i'm spending my time and money on equipment that will actually mean something.

the Tohatsu (stock) is PROBATIONARY in the 750mod class this year.....

[Brian10s]

Mod Prototype Rule

C. For the purpose of testing and evaluation, the MORC may approve the racing of prototype motors. Prototype motors may be raced at any non-championship event. An entry with a prototype motor shall be counted as a legal entry for all purposes with the exception of awarding national points, championships or records to the driver of the prototype motor. In such cases, a race in which a prototype motor is used shall be scored such that place points are awarded as if the prototype entry did not exist. Granting prototype status in no way obligates the MORC to approve a specific motor for Mod racing. Petitions for prototype status shall be filed with the Chairman and shall be decided by the MORC. Prototype status shall be reviewed annually by the MORC.

[Dave M]

No

Great, thanks for the info! But to make sure I have it right...

NBRA:
I can run motors A,B and C in the "E Runabout class".
I can run motor A and C in the "D Runabout class"

APBA:
Motors A, B and C in the "750Mod" and the "850mod" classes
Motors A and C in the "D stock classes"

None of these motors (in particular the Tohatsu) are "probationary"? Basiclly, i'm asking if I race a new Tohatsu motor, i'm eligable to actually win?

Thanks again for the information. To be honest, I've been hearing different things from different people. I want to make sure i'm spending my time and money on equipment that will actually mean something.

Josh,

The APBA stock D class (44XS, Tohotsu) is not an "E" Runabout in the NBRA. It is a "D" Runabout in the NBRA. It has its own class in NBRA.

Your 44 Mod engine races in the "E" Runabout class. That class is made up with Mercury 44 Mod engines. You can't run your stock engines in this clas at a Nationals. Perhaps at a local race they will allow it if needed, but at a National event, no.

Are the NBRA rules that hard to read and interpret ? Serious questuion here not being a smart azz. If they are, we will look at changing them to be easier to interpret.

[krazy karl]

Forget about the Tohatsu, I am going to win the raffle and run it Top O'. :

kk

[Art K]

You can run a stock Tohatsu in D Run. or Super E Run in either stock or mod form.
44xs Merc stock can run D & E run.
44 Merc. Mod runs in E Run only.
Referee can allow stepups or stepdowns at local races, no points
This applies to Hyd classes also.
Art K Tech VP NBRA any questions 314 741 0563

[pearson95m]

NBRA
Dave, thanks for the help. I might be looking at some outdated info (but I don’t think so). I went to the following website: http://www.racenbra.net/2013_Technical_Rules.html and downloaded the 2013 Tech rules. On the first page it states the “Super Stock General Technical Rules”. Under this it lists the classes and the motors allowed. I don’t see the Tohatsu on this list. However, I do see the tech sheet for the tohatsu on pg 26. I was just wondering what class this was allowed in?... NBRA D?, NBRA E?, or both? Is there a difference between “E” and “Super E”? In some places I see “E”, “SE” or “Super E”. I’m not sure if these are all the same or not. I also don’t see the 44XS listed on this first page.

Also, on pg 28 (at the very top) under the Super E Rules it does list the Tohatsu M50D2 as a legal motor for Super E in Group 4. Are the “Groups” meant for inspection purposes only or are these sub-classes to the E class intended to raced as such.

General question for NBRA. I’m assuming the NBRA E class has been constructed to be similar to the APBA 750mod class? I’m also assuming the the NBRA D class is similar to the APBA D class? If that assumption is correct, can you compete in the NBRA nationals with D equipment in the E class? I understand you’ll be at a disadvantage.

Whew! Ok, with all that said, I saw a link on the same website that’s labeled “Class Breakdown” and under that it takes you to “2013 Classes, Engines and Weights”. Under this I see the 44XS and the Tohatsu in the D stock class. Then I slide down to the “Super Stock Engines” and see under class “E” the Merc 44. Is this meant to be basically the APBA 750mod motor? Can you run the 44XS stock in this class? Then under the “SE” class I see the Tohatsu again. Thennnn… you slide down to the bottom of this page and see under “note #2 Stock and super stock classes are combined. (Example D Stock engines are combined with D Super Stock Engines).” – What does that mean? Does it mean that the list of legal motors above might be bumped around to different classes at the committee’s discression?

I’m truly sorry for all this… I feel stupid and I’m sure if I just came to a race I’d understand it all.

[pearson95m]

Well, just after I posted that I see Art K posted a response that I was looking for. All the confusion on terminology has been clarified (in my case anyway). Thanks Art, I get it now. And that’s what I was assuming.

And Karl… I hope you do! Besides, I’d rather win the lotto anyway.. haha…

[Dave M]

Whew

Josh,

Thanks for pointing all that out. I know you well enough that I felt perhaps it was confusing on the website or rule book to someone new to racing NBRA. As a member, it is easy to get complacent and assume we all know. I know we feel the rules need to be clear and simple for all to understand.

Art is a good source to contact as he pretty much owns the rulebook. So if it is all confusing, scream at him, call him names, and drunk dial him in the middle of the night !

You are right about one thing, if you come to a race, it will be a lot easier to understand, and I think you will be amazed at the number of big runabouts we race each weekend. As much as DSR has shrunk in APBA, the class has grown much more in NBRA than that loss. The DR class is one to watch. Usually a near full field and they all want to win. I always walk over to shoreline to watch it. In my own personal opinion, having raced against you in the 750CCMR in APBA with you using your stock 44XS that day, I feel your rig would be right up front fighting for the win. Lord help us if you figure out you have no height restriction or no propeller limititation to 3 blades.....

[Art K]

E run is like APBA 750 Super E is like 850. E Run has weights Super E does not
also we don`t allow some of the mods that are allowed on the OMC 3 cyl. in APBA
Art K

[pearson95m]

Great! Thanks everyone. Kelly called me also and explained it to me. I wasn't to concerned because I know i'm covered either way anyway. Just want to know what to start testing.

I wonder if I someone from APBA would mind clarifying. I understand now that the Tohatsu is on probabation for the Mod750 class. Can it be run in the Mod 850 class? How about Stock D class? Is this years 2013 Tohatsu from Richmond Aero Marine a legal motor? I can't find anything in the rules that say it isn't. Is that true?

[Howie Nichols]

The Tohatsu is a legal APBA 850 and can be run at any race for points and titles

Alex is the distributor for Tohatsu so his motors are legal in both APBA SO & MOD categories.

The Tohatsu is legal in APBA D classes.

The Tohatsu is a probationary motor in MOD for the 750 class. You can run it any race legally except for Championship events.

Hope this helps (Theses are all for APBA, I am unfamiliar with NBRA or AOF tech rules)