growing stock outboard racing.warning: controversial

[joejohn44]

I said this would be controversial, and this is only my opinion, but I am interested in everyone else's as to what happened to stock outboard hydroplane racing. Let me start off by stipulating that I am no longer an APBA member(since2010). I AM, however, an NBRA member and my motor box is full of Yamatos. Having said that, I think the Yamato has killed the sport. Don't get me wrong, I love the engine. They are fast, light, and practically indestructable. But I have been reading on another thread about boat count in the mid 70's...I remember those days...awesome. The problem with the Yamato is the same as the Sidewinder. It is a purpose-built racing engine, with no "fishing" version. Yamato has been in stock outboarding for over 30 years and I defy anyone to go to their local launch ramp ask "Joe fisherman" (or any other boat enthusiast) if he has ever heard of Yamato. NOPE. Sidewinder? NOPE. How about Mercury? Tohatsu? Yamaha? Suzuki? Johnson? Evinrude? Well, sure!!! Here is my point:from the 40's through the 70's engine manufacturers took it upon themselves to market the sport. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday, right? How many Mercury and OMC dealers were there in the country? EVERY Marina in the country. You could walk into the parts dept and buy parts. A lot of the time, they were in stock. Ever see a 30H with a quickie on display in the showroom?After all, these were basically converted fishing motors, hence the name STOCK OUTBOARD. Yamato, for all it's positives, has no loyal following outside of racing and has only a few dealers...after 30 years of dominance. To further illustrate my point, why is Nascar so popular? Because they race Fords, Chevys, Dodges and Toyotas. All with loyal fans rooting for their favorite brand. We should be courting every major outboard motor manufacturer and help develop STOCK fishing motors for racing. It is a win-win for both sides. just one racer's opinion...

[raceright]

I said this would be controversial, and this is only my opinion, but I am interested in everyone else's as to what happened to stock outboard hydroplane racing. Let me start off by stipulating that I am no longer an APBA member(since2010). I AM, however, an NBRA member and my motor box is full of Yamatos. Having said that, I think the Yamato has killed the sport. Don't get me wrong, I love the engine. They are fast, light, and practically indestructable. But I have been reading on another thread about boat count in the mid 70's...I remember those days...awesome. The problem with the Yamato is the same as the Sidewinder. It is a purpose-built racing engine, with no "fishing" version. Yamato has been in stock outboarding for over 30 years and I defy anyone to go to their local launch ramp ask "Joe fisherman" (or any other boat enthusiast) if he has ever heard of Yamato. NOPE. Sidewinder? NOPE. How about Mercury? Tohatsu? Yamaha? Suzuki? Johnson? Evinrude? Well, sure!!! Here is my point:from the 40's through the 70's engine manufacturers took it upon themselves to market the sport. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday, right? How many Mercury and OMC dealers were there in the country? EVERY Marina in the country. You could walk into the parts dept and buy parts. A lot of the time, they were in stock. Ever see a 30H with a quickie on display in the showroom?After all, these were basically converted fishing motors, hence the name STOCK OUTBOARD. Yamato, for all it's positives, has no loyal following outside of racing and has only a few dealers...after 30 years of dominance. To further illustrate my point, why is Nascar so popular? Because they race Fords, Chevys, Dodges and Toyotas. All with loyal fans rooting for their favorite brand. We should be courting every major outboard motor manufacturer and help develop STOCK fishing motors for racing. It is a win-win for both sides. just one racer's opinion...

Oh my god this truth has been preached for years and the sorc does not hear yaaaa
Right on it is the only way to save stock outboard

[G Stillwill]

APBA has went in the back door at Mercury to get the Merc 15 for racing and the is an export only motor that if left around that is Two Stroke. None make a performance 4 stroke motor as in fishing motors. They are to heavy for the power to weight ratio. If they were like the cycle motors that turn a lot of rpm's it would be no problem to convert a fishing motor into a racing motor.

[krazy karl]

You are very right, but brand loyalty is going away. Look at all the Toyotas on the road that have the personality of a refrigerator. Even NASCAR concentrates on driver personalities and brands are secondary. I never heard once this year anything about the Manufacturers Championship, it used to be a big deal. Dodge pulled out because they weren't getting enough bang for the buck, all the cars are mandated to be virtually the same. Chrysler is putting their money in rallyeing and drag racing where they believe they can generate more vehicle sales for the Dart from Rallye exposure. Mopar Performance Parts is a big deal and drag racing generates lots of sales in performance parts for that division.

Our sport is left out in the cold, Mercury does make hot rod motors but they are the big sixes and Mercury promotes competitive bass tournament boats in hopes of selling their top of the line stuff to bass fisherman. The guys who run a 25hp Mercury on their fishing tinny couldn't care less about performance and have no interest in what that motor can do on the race course. Thus Mercury isn't going to invest the money to build a hot small fishing motor that can win on Sunday but will unlikely generate any sales on Monday because there isn't any interest in high performance small engines and the EPA has made it virtually impossible but it can be done, example e-tec.

Back in the day I followed boat racing and read every copy of Boat Sport over and over and over again. I am afraid those days are gone, a majority of the kids today would rather hang out on their smart phone with social media. My two step kids do not have one single hobby between them as much as I have tried to interest them in something, rather they follow the entertainment industry on their phones and TV. As an aside, we really need to support the kids we have in our sport today, they will be tomorrow's leaders. I just hate seeing what is happening to the sport I loved following as a kid and now doing as an old fart. I hope I made some sense. I'll get off the soap box now, but you got me started.
kk

[csh2z]

JoeJohn44,
Why did the Merc Challenge series end?..........

[Hunter]

I don't think any of you get it....

There are some major tomes posted about "parity" of motors and other drivel being the problem with stock outboard racing. Please notice that the future of stock AND mod outboard racing is an APBA problem. Ya'll seem to focus on the need to win races in order to be an enthusiast. A race only has one winner. Many participants do not need to win to be dedicated to the sport. I have known several who had very fast stuff but were gentleman drivers and enjoyed being on the course,driving safely, and making it back to the pits with their stuff intact. We need more participants. The easiest way to get them is to make it easier to start in the sport and watch out for the interests of those we have. For various reasons, maybe even valid ones, APBA has made it harder for clubs like ours to put on a race and harder for a newcomer to just try our sport.
Hunter III

[joejohn44]

John, I was running Inboards at the time and do not have a definitive answer because I was not there. I assume it was because Merc pulled funding for the series and as someone stated earlier that was because they wanted to go a different direction with their marketing. My point is in the 70's and early 80's and APBA was looking to replace the 30H, A purpose built racing engine with NO name recognition and NO marketing strategy began the downfall of Stock Outboard racing. 30 years later, the only people who have heard of a Yamato are those already involved. This line of thinking drove itself home in my mind because just before Christmas, I was searching Craigslist and found a Y80 for sale here locally. (Dallas/Ft. Worth). I bought the motor, and in talking with the guy, he wanted to sell it because it is the only one HE had ever heard of, nobody he KNOWS ever heard of it, he could not find parts, and basically did not know what to do with it. He searched online and found Ric Montoya and got the impression from Ric that this Y80 is obsolete and if he wanted to go racing, he needed to order a new 302. The kid wants to race. He wants to race a class with an engine that is recognizable. You are going to find it very difficult to get people involved in the sport in large numbers with a stock motor that nobody has ever heard of and only a couple places in the country to buy parts. The point someone else made about 2stroke/4 stroke is a very valid point too. Thank you all for your input. I would like to add that one of the reasons I like NBRA so much is (as Jeff Ruth pointed out to me this morning) you can get just about any "fishing" powerhead under 49 cid and there is a class in which to run.

[bill van steenwyk]

There are some major tomes posted about "parity" of motors and other drivel being the problem with stock outboard racing. Please notice that the future of stock AND mod outboard racing is an APBA problem. Ya'll seem to focus on the need to win races in order to be an enthusiast. A race only has one winner. Many participants do not need to win to be dedicated to the sport. I have known several who had very fast stuff but were gentleman drivers and enjoyed being on the course,driving safely, and making it back to the pits with their stuff intact. We need more participants. The easiest way to get them is to make it easier to start in the sport and watch out for the interests of those we have. For various reasons, maybe even valid ones, APBA has made it harder for clubs like ours to put on a race and harder for a newcomer to just try our sport.
Hunter III

Hunter:

IMHO opinion one of the best posts I have seen on the problems facing boat racing, and not just in the Stock category.

A really worn out quote, (but one that needs to be repeated again and again) is from the old comic strip POGO. Too bad it is not still in existence as there was much common sense therein. The quote goes "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND IT IS US!!

One of the few APBA categories to recognize this is USTS. If successful, perhaps they could be a blueprint for how to do things, or even possibly change the way things are done in APBA, although I have my doubts about that one.

[mdaspit]

It's not motors or boats or APBA or anything else that you can control.

You can manipulate things and have some success here and there, but never enough to make a significant difference.

It's the Zeitgeist, the intangible of the time.

Boat racing was a phenomena, who knows what creates them, who knows why they end...

But end, this one will... or has, except for the few true warriors who will keep its heart beating in isolated little pockets around the country.

[reed28n]

That would make too much sense

It's not motors or boats or APBA or anything else that you can control.

You can manipulate things and have some success here and there, but never enough to make a significant difference.

It's the Zeitgeist, the intangible of the time.

Boat racing was a phenomena, who knows what creates them, who knows why they end...

But, end, this one will, or has, except for the few true warriors who will keep it's heart beating in isolated little pockets around the country.

With kids locked inside faces buried in Ipads and chugging energy drinks beacuse we can't let them go outside for fear some will pile them into a van, why can't we force people out to some hidden lake in off the peak season when the cottagers have gone home to watch 8 hrs of 23 classes with 40 drivers lapping garbage bags all looking the same with unenforced rules that no one can understand? Fortunately we have a crackly old speaker system to explain it all to the people who stumbled on it.

[Apachemax]

I am 16 and new to the sport. I have one season of BSR under my belt. The one season totally killed the excitement of video gaming. My father and I are currently expanding our collection a racing equipment In hope to race more classes and are looking forward to the 2013 racing season. we are coming from the world of drag racing, circle track racing and the like. We realize after discovering the world of kneel down boat racing, it has just as much to offer as these other motor-sports, Upon a quick study of this form of racing, we discovered that it was phenomenal before World War II through the early 50s, but by the mid 50s, the decline in participation and spectators was viewed by founding members, like Carl Kiekafer, as a dying sport. unfortunately, people like him did more harm by condemning it. If these folks looked a little past their own little world, they would've realized there were simply other things coming of age in the racing industry. Drag strips and Circle tracks were popping up around the country, leaving our boat racing sport to spiral down to where it is today. Simple because it was mismanaged.
Well we have good news for those of you who like kneel down boat racing. There are millions of people who want to go boat racing, they just don't know it yet. There is a severe problem within the local stock-car racing industry. That problem is you will need a V8 rear wheel drive full frame vehicle to modify. Unfortunately the last of this type of vehicle was manufactured in the middle 80s. There are many people scrambling to gather what is left of this type of vehicle. There are also many people on the sidelines that are no longer able to race. Every Sunday in the summer months, a few more of these vehicles are destroyed beyond use. Kneel down boat racing is just the thing to fill the void.
If you have time, And are located near a local stock-car track, pull your rig into the parking lot early Sunday afternoon, be prepared to talk And I guarantee you will be astonished by the response
Last summer in-between races, we went to our local car shows and tracks with our rig and received an overwhelming response, guaranteeing that there is interest in this sport. We will be out there continuing to promote every chance we get. we encourage you to do the same We strongly believe that this sport can be turned around.

[csh2z]

Hunter,
The other thread you referred to is about parity. In the big picture, you're right it is drivel in comparison to our primary issue of growing Stock Outboard.
Apachemax, thanks for your perspective, it's nice to hear something positive about our sport. Welcome and thanks for joining us. I look forward to meeting you someday.

[krazy karl]

Apachemax,
We need more kids like you. I am one of the old farts and as much as I have tried I have a limited amount of people to interest in our sport. Guys like you need to bring your young friends to a race and get them hooked. In region 11 we have NORCAL and for not too much money a newbie can go thru school and drive a real race boat in a couple of heats. In a lot of cases that's all it takes. All you young guys get your friends off the net and into a boat
kk

[Dennis Crews]

I am 16 and new to the sport. I have one season of BSR under my belt. The one season totally killed the excitement of video gaming. My father and I are currently expanding our collection a racing equipment In hope to race more classes and are looking forward to the 2013 racing season. we are coming from the world of drag racing, circle track racing and the like. We realize after discovering the world of kneel down boat racing, it has just as much to offer as these other motor-sports, Upon a quick study of this form of racing, we discovered that it was phenomenal before World War II through the early 50s, but by the mid 50s, the decline in participation and spectators was viewed by founding members, like Carl Kiekafer, as a dying sport. unfortunately, people like him did more harm by condemning it. If these folks looked a little past their own little world, they would've realized there were simply other things coming of age in the racing industry. Drag strips and Circle tracks were popping up around the country, leaving our boat racing sport to spiral down to where it is today. Simple because it was mismanaged.


Well we have good news for those of you who like kneel down boat racing. There are millions of people who want to go boat racing, they just don't know it yet. There is a severe problem within the local stock-car racing industry. That problem is you will need a V8 rear wheel drive full frame vehicle to modify. Unfortunately the last of this type of vehicle was manufactured in the middle 80s. There are many people scrambling to gather what is left of this type of vehicle. There are also many people on the sidelines that are no longer able to race. Every Sunday in the summer months, a few more of these vehicles are destroyed beyond use. Kneel down boat racing is just the thing to fill the void.
If you have time, And are located near a local stock-car track, pull your rig into the parking lot early Sunday afternoon, be prepared to talk And I guarantee you will be astonished by the response
Last summer in-between races, we went to our local car shows and tracks with our rig and received an overwhelming response, guaranteeing that there is interest in this sport. We will be out there continuing to promote every chance we get. we encourage you to do the same We strongly believe that this sport can be turned around.

Apachemax, you are well spoken beyond your years. Thank you for your input.

[roperz111]

The one season totally killed the excitement of video gaming.

I TOTALLY LOVE THIS LINE!!