SORC Please Consider "Parity"

[raceright]

My comment above was for "raceright".

You mean to tell me the only thing you got out of my post is the weapons comment. And you want to know why there is such a decrease in membership DUUUH..If you take offense to my comments on parity I can not help that.
Stock outboard has been trying to save obsolete engines for so long that stock outboard will soon be obsolete and some of your leaders know this.
I can remember in 1982 at the national convention the stockoutboard commission was doing things in the meeting that pissed Harry Pinner off he leaned over to me and said they are going to ruin the whole thing---he was right.

Why do I bother to rant , because you have a stock outboard leader who could possibly save APBA if only you commissioners do not tie his hands.

[pav225]

no offense

Pat,
I take no offense to any comments made on HR.

Let's get back to the subject of "parity". This thread was started to get some good/healthy discussion around "parity". I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts.

Mike

[reed28n]

Grass Lake

Needs to be noted that Dave nailed all 3 starts at Grass Lake. The other 2 boats did not start nearly as well. Dave had a large lead coming out of the first turn in the 3rd race and was EASILY passed.

I know the facts as I was there and intently watching the race. I knew Dave was there chasing High Points.

Are you as concerned for all the Yamato 80 racers that you beat up on in the 20SSH race in the Nationals. I encourage everyone to watch the video of your two heats. See where you started and how you piled throught the pack.

I believe a parity committee can be a slipery slope. The SORC needs to be clear. Is the intent to favor new and current available or currently in production motors that everyone has an equal opportunity to obtain?

OR

Favor racing engines that only guys like Dave can get 99.9% out of.
102,80, OMC A, 25XS, 15 Hot Rod(B class) if you look around at the drivers that are dominating their classes you will come up with the correct answer.

Parity should be targeted at the top performers in each class... not the middle of the pack. If you race in the middle of the pack, know that you best opportunity to get to the front is to pay a premium for a motor from a top performer or through careful parity of the SORC buy a new motor that puts you in the hunt.

[PittmanRacing]

It's Not Luck

Mike, thanks for your thoughtful post. I was also at the Fall Grass Lake race and watched those that particular race very closely as daughter raced in the same heats with Dave. As such, I can validate your summary of the heats as 100% accurate.

Winners rarely win because of luck. Often it’s the challenge of the journey to winning that is the most rewarding. Winning is just a validation of the hard work that got you there. All the most successful drivers have put a lot of time and hard work into their success. Yes it takes it all to win – great equipment (boat, motor, prop), set up correctly, and driven well! This requires plenty of homework and testing. There is no debate that both Dave Bennett and Matt Dagostino both had the winning combinations this year in ASH. When someone can win predominantly because of having a motor advantage, this is unhealthy for the future of a class.

With regard to parity, we have to balance access to competitive equipment (old or new) to a class with making decisions that don’t obsolete the significant proportion of motors in our largest classes. In other words, we don’t want to have a situation where the only way to win is either be lucky enough to get one of the few special heirlooms of the past OR have to buy a new motor. Having raced in other APBA categories, these two situations seem more prevalent in the Stock Outboard category. One of the best indicators of whether you have parity in a class is the number of people racing in the class. New racers are unlikely to choose a class where they; 1. Perceive unequal access to competitive equipment, 2. The financial cost to get into the class is too high. The financial cost includes both the initial cost of equipment and the “value” proposition (can the equipment be used to race in other classes like the Mercury J/AX).

The biggest asset we have in our sport is great people. The fact is hanging out with our friends at the races is more important than the race itself. Win or lose, we are all friends. Feel free to disagree with the ideas others share. There is no need to make disagreements of ideas and perspectives so personal.

[raceright]

Scott is right here make purchase the same for everyone .
The Two Scotts who I know will run up front with what ever there is but many others will struggle till they learn, New engines will help the newbie learn faster and this is the only true Parity--level field.


As scott pointed out. believe a parity committee can be a slipery slope. The SORC needs to be clear. Is the intent to favor new and current available or currently in production motors that everyone has an equal opportunity to obtain?

[reed28n]

20SSH Grass Lake

http://www.livestream.com/APBA_racin...edium=ui-thumb

fun to watch

[pav225]

Are you as concerned for all the Yamato 80 racers that you beat up on in the 20SSH race in the Nationals.

Scott,
I absolutely am concerned about Y80s being competitive with the Y302s. That's why I fought, and will continue to fight to keep the 20ssH height at 1/2"....to keep the Y80s competitive! Check with Matt D...he's still mad at me for that.

If Y80s are no longer competitive, we will lose a lot of 20ssH drivers.

Mike

PS. For me, those were good starts!

[Big Don]

Scott,


Mike

PS. For me, those were good starts!

I would agree, for Mike those were good starts.

With Love from Colorado

[pav225]

Behind the scenes

http://www.livestream.com/APBA_racin...edium=ui-thumb

fun to watch

Even more fun to race!!

What you don't see in this video is the INCREDIBLE amount of hard work and testing that went into making this happen. We started on this quest the night of the Wakefield Finals banquet and began testing 2 months earlier than usual. We never lost site of our goal to win.

It was an incredible team effort!

Mike

[daveracerdsh]

Dallas

Ya..I will be at Dallas....name is Dave Anderson ( I have had several nicknames over the years, mostly due to rental car destruction...) My observations were not meant as a slam against any motor...remember, I was the person that made the motion to include the Sidewinder in stock racing....we sure need new motors in every class, or over time that class will die out...it is a fact. And as I type this I am sitting in a Starbucks wondering why I am dumb enough to pay 2 bucks for a cup of lukewarm coffee...9US

[raceright]

Ya..I will be at Dallas....name is Dave Anderson ( I have had several nicknames over the years, mostly due to rental car destruction...) My observations were not meant as a slam against any motor...remember, I was the person that made the motion to include the Sidewinder in stock racing....we sure need new motors in every class, or over time that class will die out...it is a fact. And as I type this I am sitting in a Starbucks wondering why I am dumb enough to pay 2 bucks for a cup of lukewarm coffee...9US

cause you keep looking over your shoulder haahhahhha

Maybe See ya in Texas, ya might know Dave Jones from Connecticut I will be with him we are sharing a room. As well as at the Pro Meetings.

[G Stillwill]

Trust me Mike the two Sidwinders that I have just didnt fall on the back of the boat and go fast I did a lot of testing and work to get them there. I just didnt have to blue print them they come already done. The one boat Im building is just like the old boat except with a 35 in bottom instead of the 36. The other one has three more inches of after plan with the 35 in bottom but all else is the same.

[reed28n]

Effort

Even more fun to race!!

What you don't see in this video is the INCREDIBLE amount of hard work and testing that went into making this happen. We started on this quest the night of the Wakefield Finals banquet and began testing 2 months earlier than usual. We never lost site of our goal to win.

It was an incredible team effort!

Mike

No one is discounting the effort in building the boats and motors and testing all the props.... the telling part of the video is where the other restricted motors started vs. some very strong 80's.

I just want to be careful we aren't tryng to slow down motor because it is $4000plus vs. not slowing down the 302 at $3000(by the time you ship it and shape) or because it happens to be in someone's trailer that has some influence.

Let's not discount the performance of the 302 based on a good start..... there were Y80's that started equally with you that you left....

[pav225]

Scott,
I have Y80s and Y302s in my trailer box, and I do not own an OMC "A" motor, so I can't be accused of "protecting my trailer box"...but nice try to discredit my argument.

I am simply trying to protect our sport and firmly believe if a new motor is 2 MPH faster out of the box than the fastest current motors, then the class will suffer. 2 recent cases in point: 1) I had someone asking me yesterday about updating a boat/motor to switch from ASH to FAH because they can't compete...and they are fast in ASH! 2) ASR has already been replaced by FAR in our Region. Theses are facts.

I would say that the transition to the 302 has been very good in the 20ssH class. The West Coast guys got them going first and others have been coming along over the last few years. The 302 has also transitioned very nicely in the C Class. It's a pretty good model to replicate. Folks can compete with an older motor for ~$1200 or buy a new 302. You may not appreciate using facts, but a 302 is closer to $2500 and a new SW is closer to $4800.

I have simply asked the SORC to consider parity in making decisions regarding classes and motors in order to maintain the current base of drivers while offering a good (new) motor option for new racers to purchase. While some may accuse me of being against SW, I think they make a great A motor. I also believe that a healthy transition into a class will actually help them sell more motors.

I've walked through what I think is a realistic scenario of what will happen in the A Class if new motors are too fast. I have also stated that new motors (Sidewinders) are good for the class. If you don't mind, walk through your scenario for me. There have been a few seasons since the new motor has been approved...feel free to share how it has helped grow the class in your Region.

Looking forward to your reply. Feel free to post more videos of me....check out 1990 CSH. You think I started poorly in Grass Lake, wait til you see Wakefield!

Mike

[pav225]

Nice Start!

Since my boys enjoy using actual facts when discussing an issue, they looked at the attached video.

They were kind enough to attach a pic of the start. I actually started in 3rd. Behind 1 Y302 and 1 Y80. So, to get to the front, I passed 1 Y302 and 1 Y302.

Facts are fun.


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