Now that we know the HOC class...

[propnuts]

It makes me wonder about this post from my good pal Eddie:

"Interesting that an attempt to buy a way into the Hall of Champions by protesting a non-speed advantage boat violation against a clear winner on the race course was not mentioned in this article about "ethics"."

Since the appeal was an attempt to buy an HOC spot, and the appeal worked, who exactly bought their way into the HOC, was it Pavlick, Pater or you?

If it was none of you guys, then I guess it was just a poorly hatched scheme? If someone spends a grand to get into the HOC and still doesn't get there, that does not speak well for that person. Nice try Lombardo, better luck next time.

[Racerkyle20]

Wth?

I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. Tony had the ash high point without getting a first at nats. And if he was Truley going for the hoc he would have been at yelm trying for a record....

I don't get your post mr. Perman and I don't see the point of creating unnecessary conflict.

[bill boyes]

Tony had nothing to do with the appeal. The owner filed it because she felt that the SORC was wrong in overturning a Safety rule DQ. I think she would have filed it if Tony was dead last.

[leftcoastc-92]

Are you happy now?

Tony Perman,
You must think you know me or know my involvement in this whole mess. Whatever you have worked up in your head is incorrect. I was the driver of the 84-C at the nationals, my job ended when I crossed the finish line. Yes I did try and protest the SORC appeal and I was rejected (at the race site). But after I was rejected I told everybody who asked me, I would not be taking it any farther. At the time I was a little emotional from all the highs and lows from that day. So, yes to you and everybody else I am guilty of letting my emotions cloud my judgment for that day only. This is where my involvement ended! I had a lot of calls from people asking if I would appeal the SORC, some even offered their own money to help me. I rejected their offers and said no I am happy and proud of my 2nd place finish. I did not even know the appeal was filed till I had a call one morning waking me up asking if I made the appeal. I said “I did not make any appeal” . I did not know who even made it till days after. I contacted Matt that day and told him I was sorry, and that I had nothing to do with it. Which, I am still very sorry to this day to both Matt and George. I did not want to win this way at all! And when I talked to Matt, I told him that no matter what happened, I still believe he is the 2012 ASH National Champ in my eyes.

By no means did I come home after the nationals and make some grand plan to get myself in the Hall of Champions. I was asked to go to Yelm and I rejected the offer. Am I guilty of winning the ASH High Points yes I am. I feel like I earned that the right way. And by the way it was unassisted from the extra 300 points that were given to me later on. So do you really think I feel good about my so called ASH 2012 national title? Well, I DO NOT! If I was to get into the HOC and stand up there I could not feel good about myself. I told people if I get in to the HOC I would not go to the induction. For the fact that I would be embarrassed. And I feel embarrassed today of this whole situation. Put yourself in my shoes and think about it. It was a really ****ty place to be and one that I did not want to be in. So who are you to judge me when you don’t really even know Me. I think you need to take a long look at yourself TONY PERMAN! Before you look at me and judge the ****ty situation I got thrown into.

P.S. why don’t you Call me and we can talk about it like MEN. And Not act like little middle school girls that like to play the role of a cyber bully!

(925)922-7638 I’ll be by my phone every day after 5pm because I have a life. I’ll be waiting to hear from you!

[Joe J]

Well done Tony!!!!!!!

Joe

Tony Perman,
You must think you know me or know my involvement in this whole mess. Whatever you have worked up in your head is incorrect. I was the driver of the 84-C at the nationals, my job ended when I crossed the finish line. Yes I did try and protest the SORC appeal and I was rejected (at the race site). But after I was rejected I told everybody who asked me, I would not be taking it any farther. At the time I was a little emotional from all the highs and lows from that day. So, yes to you and everybody else I am guilty of letting my emotions cloud my judgment for that day only. This is where my involvement ended! I had a lot of calls from people asking if I would appeal the SORC, some even offered their own money to help me. I rejected their offers and said no I am happy and proud of my 2nd place finish. I did not even know the appeal was filed till I had a call one morning waking me up asking if I made the appeal. I said “I did not make any appeal” . I did not know who even made it till days after. I contacted Matt that day and told him I was sorry, and that I had nothing to do with it. Which, I am still very sorry to this day to both Matt and George. I did not want to win this way at all! And when I talked to Matt, I told him that no matter what happened, I still believe he is the 2012 ASH National Champ in my eyes.

By no means did I come home after the nationals and make some grand plan to get myself in the Hall of Champions. I was asked to go to Yelm and I rejected the offer. Am I guilty of winning the ASH High Points yes I am. I feel like I earned that the right way. And by the way it was unassisted from the extra 300 points that were given to me later on. So do you really think I feel good about my so called ASH 2012 national title? Well, I DO NOT! If I was to get into the HOC and stand up there I could not feel good about myself. I told people if I get in to the HOC I would not go to the induction. For the fact that I would be embarrassed. And I feel embarrassed today of this whole situation. Put yourself in my shoes and think about it. It was a really ****ty place to be and one that I did not want to be in. So who are you to judge me when you don’t really even know Me. I think you need to take a long look at yourself TONY PERMAN! Before you look at me and judge the ****ty situation I got thrown into.

P.S. why don’t you Call me and we can talk about it like MEN. And Not act like little middle school girls that like to play the role of a cyber bully!

(925)922-7638 I’ll be by my phone every day after 5pm because I have a life. I’ll be waiting to hear from you!

[Bob Dunlap]

u r the best TONY L. and we all know that, don't pay any attention to all that crap on the net, none us do.:congrats:

[Affholter66]

Well Said..

Tony

I've never had the pleasure to meet you..but I sure would like too! The whole mess seems like, well a mess. Congrats..and well said!

[bill boyes]

I cannot and will not I speak for Tony nor Jean. However, I believe we as APBA members are putting way too much emphasis on the HOC. Rules are being manipulated to favor some that want to chase the award. The criteria differs between Categories. To see racers with all the patches on their Life Jackets year after year in the Hall I really think that it can become a bitter pill for some. i do not want to take anything away from the AWARD as it is a real Honor. But to see the same faces I think it is sad and OH HUM and degrades the award. I do not want to point any fingers but how can someone win the award in Stock with only only about 20 boats and frankly is a local class. Yes a good class. Or a category that is Local and has maybe 10 wet boats. Rules are being proposed to Favor HOC points. Not Good!!! Just my thoughts.

[jpro60]

While I'll say that both the intent, and wording of this post are piss poor, I also don't think it was ever meant as a jab at Tony L. Knowing my dad, I feel fairly confident in saying that we're both fans and friends of Tony, and all our CA pals (except maybe Ross W.)
I believe this to be poorly worded attempt at rubbing Ed's nose in a terrible accusation that Ed made in the past. I think the part related to Tony was an attempt at satire/sarcasm, which I know from my own experience rarely translates well through a keyboard.
I'm not trying to fight a fight for my dad or anything, just translating the post as I read it knowing my dad. I'm hoping to buy some "chill out" time until he clears the air, or better, just deletes the thread soon.
Edit: Since everyone is a little torqued up already I'm just going to clarify that the part about Ross W is supposed to be funny and a jab at how we dislike the near $100 entry fees at his races.

[bill van steenwyk]

Don't have any idea about rules for the HOC now...........

.....as it is too difficult to find a rule book these days, but in the 80's the rules for HOC in the PRO category stated that the FIRST qualifier was you MUST be a National Championship winner, and since it is the Hall Of Champions I have always thought that was proper.

Then each other thing accomplished such as records, both competition and kilo, high points, etc., were given a certain number of points toward the award.

The most important thing in the selection process (at least as far as I was concerned) was in case of a tie between competitors, there was a "degree of difficulty" in the equation. Don't remember the exact method used, but it eliminated the competitor that had competed against the LEAST number of boats in favor of the person who had had a more difficult time winning by having to compete against a higher number of competitors while racing during the year.

Diving competitions use the same type system by awarding more points for a 2 1/2 forward somersault with a twist than the same dive without the twist.

Simple and keeps the award prestigious by making sure the winner is truly the one who had the most difficulty winning by taking the number of competitors he had to compete against into the equation.

If I am not mistaken, this was one of the contributions Wayne Baldwin made to PRO racing when he was on the HOC committee in the 70's. If this method of calculation is not in the rules these days, it should be to eliminate what Bill Boyes is describing.

[Big Don]

Tony, I'm glad you came on here and posted what you did.

I hope this thread does not get deleted just so everyone can see Tony's own words on this mess. I also think the first thread came across not how it was meant. I'm sure it was a jab at Ed.

Ed you're disliked for many reasons, one because your a winner. Wear those patches proud as I'm sure you will. You earned each one of them on the race course. Maybe only 20 boats but every weekend is like a nationals in my opinion. One of my favorite classes to watch.


This is the very reason I try not to come on this site much any more. Haters will always hate.

Bill, your post is so out of line. Ed didn't write the rules for the 15 or whatever HOC he has won. Maybe the rest of us should buy B & 25 equipment if we think
its so easy?

[Affholter66]

I can speak of 25SSR that Ed competes in...pure SMOKE..14 races 6800pts..against some of THE best racers IN THE COUNTRY weekend in and weekend out...not always a fan of Ed, but he competes fair and square...at least in my opinion...

[blueskyracer]

If anyone knows Tony P you know the way this is being taken is not the way Tony meant it to come across..If it gets deleated it will be by him and he can deleate his own thread.

[bill boyes]

Tony, I'm glad you came on here and posted what you did.

I hope this thread does not get deleted just so everyone can see Tony's own words on this mess. I also think the first thread came across not how it was meant. I'm sure it was a jab at Ed.

Ed you're disliked for many reasons, one because your a winner. Wear those patches proud as I'm sure you will. You earned each one of them on the race course. Maybe only 20 boats but every weekend is like a nationals in my opinion. One of my favorite classes to watch.


This is the very reason I try not to come on this site much any more. Haters will always hate.

Bill, your post is so out of line. Ed didn't write the rules for the 15 or whatever HOC he has won. Maybe the rest of us should buy B & 25 equipment if we think
its so easy?

I am and will not name names. If the Bill you are talking about is me then I suggest you look at the Rule book of other Categories and you will find a big Disparity in HOC rules. ED is awarded Hoc awards per the rules and I will not imply otherwise. However, I will say that the rules are flawed and the award is becoming degraded. Again other Categories have the same problem That is my view and I am not out of line.

[Stu Ford]

I do not know the reason for starting this post but it does seem to take a jab at Tony. Those of us that DO know Tony are proud of the way he has carried himself through this whole messed up deal. I'm glad he finally got on here to speak his side.