Legal or not?

[Lee Sutter]

Legal or Not?

Thanks for your input Lee. We can take your recommendations forward onto the SORC.

The challenge continues to be:
1) How can we, as members, and category commissioners, support the officials entrusted with our rules.?

2) How can we, as members and commissioners, create rules that are enforcable?

Lee . . . if you wany to pm me we can work on verbiage.

Jean,
email me at: leesutter82@gmail.com and I'll be happy to help. Let's find out what the majority of the officials want and write air tight rules. Please send me you contact information as I don't know how to operate on the forums. I only know how to operate Excel.
Lee
Lee

[jeff55v]

Also,
What should be done to somebody that runs a previous owners number on his boat for years after changing hands?

Cooper

I think there's a rule that says prior to selling a boat, the APBA numbers be removed. I've always thought this was a good idea anyway. (Like removing license plates when I sell a car) Just my luck my old boat would change hands three times and some fool would take it for a high speed run through the marina. Next thing I know, the DNR or sheriff, or the FBI would be knocking on my door.

[reed28n]

Numbers shown not legal

RULE 6 • RACING NUMBERS
Each racing member owning a boat or boats shall annually request National Headquarters to assign him/her a racing number for each category raced. This number, or numbers, shall be valid for the current membership year. The racing member will use these numbers on all boats of all classes which he or she may enter in given category’s races. The racing number shall consist of a letter designating the geographic section of the country where the owner resides and an assigned number. The assigned number shall range from 1 to 999. The official racing number must be displayed on both sides of the boat in accordance with the following procedures:
1. Hydroplanes shall be affixed with vertical numbers on both sides of the boat. Numbers must be a minimum of six (6) inches in height and one (1) inch stroke where space permits and shall be black on white or white on black. The background must be solid. There shall be at least one (1) inch background border around each number and letter, where space permits. There shall be a minimum of one (1) inch spacing between each number and letter, where space permits.
2. In addition to vertical numbers and letters, it is recommended that hydroplanes have deck numbers and letters. These deck numbers should be placed on a solid background that contrasts strongly with the color used for the deck numbers.
3. PRO runabouts shall be affixed with numbers of a color that strongly contrasts with the background. The figures and letters shall be not LESS than 10 inches in height and the stroke not LESS than 1-1/2 inches wide, if space permits. These numbers must be affixed to both sides of the boat.
10
4. Runabouts used in MO and SO classes must be affixed with numbers that are black on a solid white background or white on a solid black background. The figures and letters must be at least 6 inches in height and the stroke must be at least 1 inch wide, where space permits. There must be at least 1 inch of background around the number, where space permits. There must be a minimum of one (1) inch spacing between each figure and letter, where space permits. Numbers must be affixed to both sides of the boat.
5. It shall be the driver’s responsibility to make the numbers legible. The numbers must be so displayed as to be clearly visible at all times, and shall be securely attached in such a manner that they will not be lost or defaced during a race. The race committee shall have the power to warn, or disqualify without previous notice, any driver who races with improper or illegible numbers.

[reed28n]

Racing

I think too many times we try to chnage our rules to accomodate a special interest. Just follow the rule, we all have the information. If we enforce them consistently from the beginning of the year we will have no issues.

Think of the rules that are followed. You jump the gun you are disqualified, you enter the course after the white flag is flown you are out, you scale in too light?

Why are these rules different? enforcement period.... enforce the rules we have with the same vigor and everyone will be on board quickly.

Don't write more. You would be surprised at all the things that are already covered.

And put your numbers on a solid background.....really? is there any other interpretation? Solid..... your number is what is on your racing liscense....solid behind the whole number that you answer at driver's meeitng with.

Lets move on

[Lee Sutter]

Legal or not?

I think this rule should be re-written to clarify the intent. It is vague, ambiguous, and subject to multiple interpretations. Alternately, a simple way to avoid any confusion is to include picture(s) with the rule.

[hshawwpba]

First let me say I’m not picking on these guys but they are great examples of the question.

In talking to someone on the SORC this summer about boat numbers they felt they do meet the rule. I on the other hand do not. I also said I would not throw someone out if I could read them.

Are these numbers legal per our rule book?

Ok since several of you seemed to be concerned about if I got permission to use that picture I decide to delete it.

All I’m trying to do is clarify the rule in the rule book so everyone understands it.

So let’s try this…if the number in the picture below were on the side of a hydro or runabout and it had 1 inch of black around each number would they be legal?

I have been told by some that no they would not be. That the black has to be one solid black color not outlined. I said the black is solid and all the black is attached. Their argument is the intent of the rule means that it has to be solid and no other wood or color can be between them.

This is the exact reason you should not run the stock class they worry about trival things like boat numbers that are no way a speed secret but allow blue printing of engines????

R10 #1487

[daveracerdsh]

Numbers

I know some people want this thread to close...but. At a recent nationals...not important which one....I did pretty good in d stock hydro. Finished top 5.....passed tech inspection, etc etc etc. Had boat back in pit area....race director comes up with a ruler (I am not making this up) and starts measuring the white border around the black numbers (56R) on both sidewalls on my boat. I had passed both technical and safety inspections.....and this guy (his name I am not going to say)...tells me..."the white border is 1/16 of an inch to small on the left cockpit side".....you are out. I almost punched the guy....I mean...come on. I am not making this up. Needless to say....cooler heads prevailed...the referee told the race director to mind his own business. Something like that. We are not racing for Nascar money....and we do have rules. But.....there has to be a certain bit of latitude given. Just my 2 cents worth. 9US.

[Big Don]

This is the exact reason you should not run the stock class they worry about trival things like boat numbers that are no way a speed secret but allow blue printing of engines????

R10 #1487

Howard, Do you really think anyone that claims to be a leader should be telling anyone that they shouldn’t race a category? How is that for the good of racing... Good way to lose some of those 36 votes.

[Big Don]

I think too many times we try to chnage our rules to accomodate a special interest. Just follow the rule, we all have the information. If we enforce them consistently from the beginning of the year we will have no issues.

Think of the rules that are followed. You jump the gun you are disqualified, you enter the course after the white flag is flown you are out, you scale in too light?

Why are these rules different? enforcement period.... enforce the rules we have with the same vigor and everyone will be on board quickly.

Don't write more. You would be surprised at all the things that are already covered.

And put your numbers on a solid background.....really? is there any other interpretation? Solid..... your number is what is on your racing liscense....solid behind the whole number that you answer at driver's meeitng with.

Lets move on

Scott I agree 100% that it has to be solid. There are a lot of people out there that don't agree. I'm just hoping that this will make those that don’t agree with us to fix their numbers.

[Dave M]

20 Lines.....

RULE 6 • RACING NUMBERS
Each racing member owning a boat or boats shall annually request National Headquarters to assign him/her a racing number for each category raced. This number, or numbers, shall be valid for the current membership year. The racing member will use these numbers on all boats of all classes which he or she may enter in given category’s races. The racing number shall consist of a letter designating the geographic section of the country where the owner resides and an assigned number. The assigned number shall range from 1 to 999. The official racing number must be displayed on both sides of the boat in accordance with the following procedures:
1. Hydroplanes shall be affixed with vertical numbers on both sides of the boat. Numbers must be a minimum of six (6) inches in height and one (1) inch stroke where space permits and shall be black on white or white on black. The background must be solid. There shall be at least one (1) inch background border around each number and letter, where space permits. There shall be a minimum of one (1) inch spacing between each number and letter, where space permits.
2. In addition to vertical numbers and letters, it is recommended that hydroplanes have deck numbers and letters. These deck numbers should be placed on a solid background that contrasts strongly with the color used for the deck numbers.
3. PRO runabouts shall be affixed with numbers of a color that strongly contrasts with the background. The figures and letters shall be not LESS than 10 inches in height and the stroke not LESS than 1-1/2 inches wide, if space permits. These numbers must be affixed to both sides of the boat.
10
4. Runabouts used in MO and SO classes must be affixed with numbers that are black on a solid white background or white on a solid black background. The figures and letters must be at least 6 inches in height and the stroke must be at least 1 inch wide, where space permits. There must be at least 1 inch of background around the number, where space permits. There must be a minimum of one (1) inch spacing between each figure and letter, where space permits. Numbers must be affixed to both sides of the boat.
5. It shall be the driver’s responsibility to make the numbers legible. The numbers must be so displayed as to be clearly visible at all times, and shall be securely attached in such a manner that they will not be lost or defaced during a race. The race committee shall have the power to warn, or disqualify without previous notice, any driver who races with improper or illegible numbers.

Now please tell me why it is neceassary to have 20 lines printed for me to read on how my boat numbers should be presented on my race boat ? Really ?
You guys are shooting yourselves in the dang foot. This is part of what I was trying to convey to Mr. Mackey (whom left this site for an even dumber reason).

The more lawyer jargon you insert into your rule book to make it 20 lines for a rule that should be no more than 1 or 2 lines the more ticked people are going to become. It also leaves room for these chicken **** moves people make on DQ for numbers, etc, hole in your cowling, wrong color gearbox, unauthorized stickers on your cowling. You people continue on with your long winded stuff. You soon won't need Crown's help at all.

[runabout333]

What about boats that have the letter before the numbers??
Is that illegal??? Someone,, please respond with the facts concerning this
situation... I have a boat coming that I will have to change the numbers on and
in the past I always put the letter before the numbers.. Was never a problem
in the past,, but now,, I do not know.

[DiGia54D]

The Pro Classes use D-54.... Stock and Mod 54-D

[14-H]

This is the exact reason you should not run the stock class they worry about trival things like boat numbers that are no way a speed secret but allow blue printing of engines????

R10 #1487

I wonder if the Region 10 scorers agree with the first part of this statement.

[pops67g]

How about another twist...

True Story --- Some years ago at a Nationals a driver was thrown out in inspection after a win because his deck numbers were not in a contrasting color - the numbers were in chrome vinyl and and the inspector said "chrome is not a color". Just another cook spoiling the broth here.

[bill boyes]

There is nothing wrong with the Numbers rule for SO/Mod/Pro. It is the drivers themselves that push the rule.
If I as Referee or my wife as chief Scorer cannot read the number on a boat legal or not we inform the driver the problem. We may even have the driver/owner do lap sheets on the judges (barge) stand. Most of the time that will make a believer of them.
Most, or should I say many do not know the rule book. Most do not even have one now that it is on line.
The only problem we have is enforcement. Many race Committees will not DQ or fail to score a driver over numbers.
The Problem with boat numbers is in the Inboard Category. Have you all looked at some posted pictures lately?