Legal or not?

[Big Don]

Btw Don, keep being a trouble maker! I'm serious, I'm sure the rule book hasn't been read this much in a very long time. In a couple of weeks, pick a new, not-clear topic and let us discuss it out!

So now a person is a trouble maker when they are trying to make sure a rule is clear to all?

Wait to you see my proposal on chopping

You and Donny will love it.

Are you two even yet?

[mercguy]

Darren, was not worried about your equipment. While looking at Gleason's pictures that just looked like a good picture to use. But obviously it wasn't...My bad.

I had no problem with it......figured you were just venting your anger against me again....

[Tomtall]

Are they legal ?

Actually the numbers you are showing appear to be on the sponson deck of a hydro. They are not the numbers on the side panel that the judges use for scoring, the deck #'s can take on any configuration of color/background or striping the boat owner wants to use as long as the deck numbers are placed on a solid background that contrasts strongly with the color used for the deck numbers. (general racing rule #6-2) If I am mistaken I'm sure someone will point it out.

[Fast Jack]

Rule book

The APBA rule book ( if you can print it out ) needs a lot of work . Seems some of us can't figure out what a rookie is ..

[sponsonhead]

I've changed my original post since several were concerned if I got permission to use that picture. Figured the Gleasons wouldn't mind since I've given then several hundred dollers for pictures over the last few years.

But that is ok I'll play by the rules.

BTW...The Gleason's did not complain...it was several others.

By all means, put the original photo back up. We have no problem with our shots being posted as long as it's got our watermark on it.

That shot IS for sale, btw...along with about 10,000 others we've taken

R-19

[Big Don]

Actually the numbers you are showing appear to be on the sponson deck of a hydro. They are not the numbers on the side panel that the judges use for scoring, the deck #'s can take on any configuration of color/background or striping the boat owner wants to use as long as the deck numbers are placed on a solid background that contrasts strongly with the color used for the deck numbers. (general racing rule #6-2) If I am mistaken I'm sure someone will point it out.

Tom I know they are off a deck...it's my boat...the question is if they were on the side for scoring would they be legal if the black out line was 1 inch.

[Tomtall]

Ok

Don - If they had a 1" boarder of contrasting black or white around each number (depending on the number color) then YES they would be legal. However, if the judges/scorers cannot read them then they should be corrected in the "spirit" of not pissing off the scorers, which you know as well as I do this is NOT something you want to do.

Great thread by the way!

[Racerkyle20]

Don- Good thread. I understand your reasoning behind it. You're trying to find out which non-speed advantage rules we really should be applying. Especially on a national stage (BTW 2010 stock nationals a driver was thrown out for illigal numbers in CSH).

To clarify the numbers rule. It was put in place so the scorers could read them better (your wife Kristy included). I think it's a good rule and should be applied. The problem is people not wiling to spend the $30 for new numbers. To me a new rule is put in place and you adhear to it. Call me old fashioned, but that just seems reasonable. Get compliant or get out seems appropriate, but I also feel racers who are not compliant with this rule are giving the figure to the scorers who wanted it in the first place. Don't piss off the scorers would be the obvious thing to do.....

To speak further on non speed rules we in region 10 have a course rule to not to cut the course before the black flag. This rule doesn't exist really anywhere else. And trust me winning a heat and then cutting the course to be disqualified sucks. But paying attention during drivers meeting and these small things should not get you in trouble.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bill Huson]

"legal" didn't seem to matter one year at the Wakefield Nats. My numbers were black on solid white background, and larger than required by about 20%. I'm in inspection when a runner dashed down from the scoring stand and told me the head scorekeeper said my numbers weren't "good enough." WTF??? When I asked for a clarification I was told "just make them better." ???

Even more confusing, the boat next to me in inspection had blue/gray script mumbers on a dark blue background, and his region letter was about 3" tall. Did he get gigged for totally illegal numbers? Noooo . . .

[Howie Nichols]

How about eliminating or changing this rule too, maybe go with

#'s must be legible by the scorer with a recommendation that they be highly contrasting. Illegible #'s will receive a warning with correction required for the next days racing or disqualification will result.

To many grey rules out there, we need to clean up the rule book ALOT!

[jpro60]

This seems easy to me to straighten out at the national meeting. Get with the scorers that are there and ask them if they feel that the background needs to be a solid black or white color covering the entirety of the number area or not. If they do, change the verbiage in the rule to reflect that. Issue done in a matter minutes.

[champhotrod]

Not owner's number

Also,
What should be done to somebody that runs a previous owners number on his boat for years after changing hands?

Cooper

[BP125V]

How about eliminating or changing this rule too, maybe go with

#'s must be legible by the scorer with a recommendation that they be highly contrasting. Illegible #'s will receive a warning with correction required for the next days racing or disqualification will result.

To many grey rules out there, we need to clean up the rule book ALOT!

Howie,

using this approach is too subjective depending on the scorer's eyes, distance from judge's stand to the course, what time of day it is, weather conditions etc.

the current rule was an attempt to take the subjectivity out of it, the problem being that too many boats out there either don't meet the rule or push the rule and then we as a collective group do not enforce the rules.

Hey Big Don - I propose that your next thread be about the 50% rule on helmets!

[bill boyes]

Some of you should work the Judges stand and do lap sheets. We have turned 'My numbers are legal' to I see what you mean.
How about the boat that has an X on the boat for months,years? There is a rule for that, very few will enforce it.
when I am Referee I just tell the driver they will not be scored.

[Big Don]

Bill don't get me going on helmets.

And while some may think I’m just trying to stir the pot, several people have asked me to clarify rules in our rule book over this past summer and the one on numbers came up a couple times. I made a list and I’m just getting started… I think what is causing some confusion is, “the background must be solid”. We always make sure our numbers are more than legal or my wife & girls would kill me. But…I still think solid means just that, that they can’t be outlined but I was just wondering what others thought.

Most scorers will probably say, if they can read them, then they are good and if not, make them better. Well at least the ones in my house. They don’t like throwing people out for what Ed would call Chicken s#it stuff.

So my thought was, if it’s not clear maybe we need to be clearer. Even though I swore if numbers ever came up in a SORC meeting again I would walk out. That and grandfathering speed records.

Kyle & John, I have a more and don’t get me going on “cutting the course”.

Here’s another one for all of you…I had someone ask about what does highly visible mean on the rule about the APBA sticker. Those of you with APBA stickers on your boats that are ¼ inch high. The rule says highly visible… From 1 foot away? That rule is clear as mud.